Is this time to ask whether this forum is related to Wilderness Tripping--- BWCA and Beyond, or whether it is merely a canoe/kayak camping board? Much of what one sees on here has nothing to do with wilderness paddling.
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Posted by: kayamedic on May-27-12 8:38 PM (EST)
By some measures there is little of it. Yet the Slates, Algonquin , some parts of Maine do qualify. And those are topics here.
How about like the BWCA, or beyond? |
Posted by: ezwater on May-28-12 12:46 AM (EST)
I might settle for a serious incursion into cabin-ish areas like the Adirondacks or Algonquin. But not something like an overnight in north Georgia.
This post belongs on B&B....|
Posted by: tjalmy on May-27-12 10:46 PM (EST)
Two surprisingly lame responses |
Posted by: ezwater on May-28-12 12:38 AM (EST)
already. And from people who know very well what I'm talking about. Many parts of Maine are fine, but many of the posts on here refer to rivers that make Maine look like untouched, pristine wilderness.
"Is this the time to ask..."|
Posted by: rpg51 on May-28-12 8:27 AM (EST)
I'm thinking about getting this forum, |
Posted by: ezwater on May-28-12 11:14 AM (EST)
and the other three, to become more useful to everyone. Many are posting on this board with very non-wilderness questions that would get more attention and better answers on the other forums.
Here's a thought for you, g2d:|
Posted by: YakOfSteel on Jun-12-12 11:00 PM (EST)
Let BRENT decide when HIS boards need policing, scolding and instructive posts to bring people back on topic. It is HIS creation, HIS livelihood, and HIS baby. I'm sure if he really wants YOUR help, he knows how to get in touch with to ask for it.
Posted by: outasight10 on Jun-13-12 9:17 AM (EST)
Grow up you sound like a child...If you look at the post and board he is right
Here's a thought for you. |
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-19-12 10:38 AM (EST)
Pretending that being away from a paved road for a few hours or a few miles is perhaps good for your flagging mental health. But it's still pretending. BWCA or beyond. Brent wrote that.
There IS no wilderness|
Posted by: kayamedic on May-28-12 9:51 AM (EST)
Go above the Artic Circle. People have been living there for a thousand years! I am going there this summer and guess what...there will be folks fishing, gathering and hunting. There might be one in a thousand miles but there will be evidence of people.
Did I ask for whom you paddle, or |
Posted by: ezwater on May-28-12 11:25 AM (EST)
indicate an interest? I'm not interested in why or where people paddle, but why this "wilderness and beyond" board lures people away from where they can get their inquiries answered, possibly by that word "wilderness." This board could be serving people who actually do multiple overnight trips in relatively remote surroundings, as the guideline implies.
Posted by: plaidpaddler on May-28-12 1:49 PM (EST)
Would you two go to neutral corners, or rivers and cool off. I value both your opinions on many paddling subjects. This is getting off topic and too personal.
You might want to try some more|
Posted by: ezwater on May-31-12 2:38 AM (EST)
consistently controversial forums, to thicken your skin. Kayakmedic and I aren't about to permanently fall out over one issue.
not getting enough attention lately g2d?|
Posted by: old_user on May-28-12 5:37 PM (EST)
How about you stop trolling for attention and get out and paddle?
There's an idea! |
Posted by: rpg51 on May-28-12 8:16 PM (EST)
Beside the point, both of you. |
Posted by: ezwater on May-31-12 2:40 AM (EST)
If you don't see an issue here, or just don't care, then why show up here at all? Go paddle yourself.
Posted by: chodups on May-28-12 8:59 PM (EST)
.... maybe the place to start is aligning the title with the description. The forum title says:
I'd say about half aligns with |
Posted by: ezwater on May-31-12 2:45 AM (EST)
You're stuck on your own definition.|
Posted by: YakOfSteel on Jun-12-12 11:09 PM (EST)
Which likely means nothing to anyone else. Where I paddle with friends on WW in West Virginia, once you put on, you are not taking off without a 7-10 mile hike with no trails, up to 800' climbs, and no help along the way, all while leaving your gear behind. And there is zero chance of first aid other than what you or someone in your group can provide. That's a reasonable definition of "wilderness" in my opinion, though unlikely yours because we "get in and out in a day". So what? Brent didn't define it further than he did, so what gives you the right to make decisions and give directions for him?
maybe he never saw Deliverance|
Posted by: bowrudder on Jun-14-12 1:16 AM (EST)
Way to change the subject . |
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-14-12 5:15 PM (EST)
What does BWCA and beyond mean to you? Twelve miles on Chattooga 3 with many known exit points? One of the largest formal wilderness areas in the east, the Cohuttas, is not much as wilderness goes. The rivers that run through it have been run, occasionally. I have run one of them, and I have walked every mile of both rivers. I never assumed I was in wilderness. None of the whitewater paddlers I've known since 1974 would consider them wilderness.
No, the only thing frustrating about you|
Posted by: YakOfSteel on Jun-17-12 9:16 PM (EST)
is the anal retentive way you go about attempting to police something as if it's yours, when it clearly is not, and the real owner seems to take no interest in doing the same.
Explain what you're doing over here. |
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-19-12 10:45 AM (EST)
I plead guilty|
Posted by: jdb on May-31-12 1:44 PM (EST)
I guess I'm an offender since I have been soliciting camping recommendations near Washington DC, which is most definitely a bearucratic wilderness, but maybe not a paddling one. I had the good fortune to do a trip in BCWA a while back and I hope to again someday. But for the time being, the wildest place I'll be paddling probably will have "State Park" somewhere in the title.
Posted by: sapien on May-31-12 5:05 PM (EST)
at least according to Wikipedia, is defined by the extent of human impact and development, not how long it takes to get there:
You might actually get a better response|
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-02-12 4:09 PM (EST)
on Advice, Discussion, or People & Places. This forum has gotten slow, and I think one reason is the discrepancy between the guideline (quite good and well-stated) and what people read in the "Wilderness" threads. We've lost most of the "wilderness" canoe campers who are still on myccr and even Song of the Paddle.
Sometimes it is a best-fit choice|
Posted by: pikabike on May-31-12 3:28 PM (EST)
I've posted questions about non-wilderness area camping before because this forum is the closest match to the kind of advice I sought.
I LIKE this board just the way it is...|
Posted by: old_user on Jun-12-12 5:43 PM (EST)
You're being silly again.|
Posted by: cockneykayaker on Jun-13-12 11:20 AM (EST)
It's nice to see the boad policeman|
Posted by: bowrudder on Jun-14-12 1:10 AM (EST)
is still doing his job
What are you doing over here? I can't |
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-17-12 5:53 PM (EST)
remember when I last saw you on the wilderness forum. Same for Yak of Pewter. I guess you're just another policeman, like me. Takes one to know one.
So I ask the cops|
Posted by: kayamedic on Jun-18-12 8:49 AM (EST)
If I travel down the Teslin and the Yukon Rivers is that wilderness? The trip will take fourteen days. Sometimes there will be no people and sometimes there will be as the Yukon is a working river. There are no roads along most of it.
I love it!|
Posted by: tjalmy on Jun-18-12 11:00 PM (EST)
g2d thinks being reminded he posted on the wrong board is lame! And he is so right! ROTFLMAO!
kayakmedic, wilderness is hard to |
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-19-12 10:50 AM (EST)
define so that the definition includes or excludes marginal cases, but most people I know would recognise that a good number of posts on this forum don't have anything to do with "wilderness." And we see rather few posts on this forum by serious wilderness paddlers.
Posted by: kayamedic on Jun-19-12 2:58 PM (EST)
I have nothing to say. I will have plenty to say in September about beyond.
I like it|
Posted by: Mcderms on Jun-19-12 9:53 PM (EST)
I know I'm one of the newer members here and well under the experience level of most others. However I have to say I like this forum and most of the post I've read. The ones I don't like I just stop reading. I think g2d has a point, it's just not a valid one by most standards.
Like I said...|
Posted by: old_user on Jun-20-12 4:55 PM (EST)
The forum could be called "canoe &|
Posted by: ezwater on Jun-23-12 9:46 PM (EST)
kayak camping." That would cover what's actually under discussion.
Thanks For The Chuckle Kids |
Posted by: SupremelyArrogant on Jul-01-12 12:26 AM (EST)
I rarely visit from B&B because for the most part it is a boring topic. This has been a good thread humor wise. If you want a wilderness experience in the 48 wear your hiking boots. Water attracts people. It's the #1 destination for vacationers. In some "wildernesses" campsites have to be assigned because of the crowds.
Experienced wilderness travelers |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-01-12 6:29 PM (EST)
share advice on myccr.
Posted by: old_user on Jul-03-12 9:00 AM (EST)
why don't you go pester Brent to change the name of the board instead of being a Biscuit Eater to the folks in here who like the board and how it's used?
A guy named SuperTroll has already|
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-04-12 8:34 PM (EST)
given away all his credibility. You can complain to Brent if you don't want to discuss this issue in a meaningful fashion.
For 17 Years Forest Service Land|
Posted by: SupremelyArrogant on Jul-07-12 11:37 PM (EST)
Was literally a stone's throw from my door. I once shot a deer while standing in my doorway. I used to have a trail maintenance business. If you want to get away from the crowds try restrictive river. The Green at the Gates of Lodore or the Selway come to mind. The Verde in February is nice.
Like others, you have disregarded my |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-18-12 11:39 AM (EST)
original point. This is labeled, and "guidelined" as a wilderness, BWCA and beyond forum, but people are treating it as a canoe camping forum.
I like wildlife and solitude in the wild|
Posted by: castoff on Jul-08-12 1:36 PM (EST)
I feel wilderness is a state of mind as much as place and/or its size. It may also be seasonal in nature. Since most of what we call wilderness today is populated by human inhabitants or multiple visitors, and much of it has been human altered many times. Does it really exist today? Can we say that wilderness exists where we have satellite coverage for phone, GPS, Spot, etc? Does it really matter if your definition or mine jive with one another?
Posted by: mgc on Jul-09-12 7:19 PM (EST)
we all just get along.....take that any way you chose to.
people who say that...|
Posted by: old_user on Jul-16-12 11:51 AM (EST)
end up in the bottom of the pool....
Very reasonable OP|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Jul-18-12 1:07 PM (EST)
I interpret g2d's OP as simply asking what the purpose of this forum is and whether it is optimally labeled.
Possibly overthinking it|
Posted by: pikabike on Jul-19-12 11:39 AM (EST)
One other factor is that the list of designated federal wilderness areas can *change*. "New wilderness" gets added. Of course, there is no real new wilderness, physically. It's just a label.
No real freedom, either. |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-20-12 12:50 AM (EST)
As I said before, most of us who seek wilderness know very well what we're looking for, and it isn't a short day run in north Georgia, and it isn't the Arkansas above Salida. BWCA and beyond says it very well.
I agree and I am working on the beyond|
Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-22-12 11:26 PM (EST)
The Arkansas is wilderness?|
Posted by: pikabike on Jul-23-12 10:53 AM (EST)
Not to me, and I've never heard anybody else call it that, in any sense of the term.
Read my post and report back. |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-26-12 1:26 PM (EST)
You will see that I did NOT say that any portion of the Ark was wilderness.
no more than the other boards.|
Posted by: paddletothesea on Jul-20-12 10:08 AM (EST)
Not any different than the other boards.
What would you suggest? |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-26-12 1:34 PM (EST)
I think the guidelines for this forum are ignored much more than those for the other forums, *unless* we just regard this as a paddler camping forum. Which I suggested we might do in my original post. I've gotten all sorts of evasion on the "wilderness" issue while few seem willing to admit that this isn't just a poor sort of horse, it's a cow!
I have a different beef|
Posted by: pikabike on Jul-26-12 6:22 PM (EST)
The appropriate title for the forum would not be "Canoe and Kayak Camping". It would be "Self-Supported Paddle Camping" or hopefully, a better term for that.
Just curious, how many hand-holding |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-26-12 9:13 PM (EST)
trips are you seeing on here? I don't see them. I don't object to "self-supported" but I wonder if there are enough "dependent" trips described on this forum to make the exclusion relevant.
I STILL Smell biscuits.....|
Posted by: old_user on Jul-30-12 9:34 AM (EST)
Must be way up your nose. |
Posted by: ezwater on Aug-20-12 3:23 PM (EST)
Posted by: marena5 on Aug-18-12 4:54 PM (EST)
with g2d expressing his opinion on the "watering-down" of this particular forum. I am a recent member and I was interested in paddling the Lake Placid/Saranac region. He politely informed me that a different discussion board would be more appropriate for my query.No big deal. Although, I did recieve some very informative and friendly responses,for which I am grateful, I arbitrarily chose the wrong board and didnt have an issue with being told so.
Take what you can get|
Posted by: old_user on Aug-31-12 1:45 PM (EST)
I would think most don't live near any real wilderness.
What is wilderness?|
Posted by: kayamedic on Sep-01-12 6:36 PM (EST)
I just did a Yukon River trip.
Posted by: yknpdlr on Sep-01-12 7:46 PM (EST)
Wilderness is a cluster concept. |
Posted by: ezwater on Sep-05-12 3:53 PM (EST)
Various things go into the definition, degree of roadlessness, degree of absence of human population, degree of wild (versus cut or farmed) vegetation, lack of buildings, lack of power lines, etc. etc.
How about "Mongolia Only"|
Posted by: DUUJ on Sep-05-12 5:46 PM (EST)
A few clicks west of Ulaanbaatar....that fit ya for "wilderness" G2.:)?
DUU is the right opening. You show no|
Posted by: ezwater on Sep-05-12 7:43 PM (EST)
understanding at all. Obviously if I back Brent's "BWCA and Beyond" as a guideline for this supposedly wilderness forum, I don't have to go to Mongolia. But if you have the money, I encourage you to go, and report back.
Much "wilder" and more dangerous|
Posted by: DUUJ on Sep-06-12 7:50 PM (EST)
than the Yukon, Boundary waters, or Mongolia, is a place I am occasionally forced to journey when I travel east and cross the George Washington Bridge.