Brand new, lots of questions - Canoeing / Kayaking

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Brand new, lots of questions
Posted by: old_user on Oct-01-10 11:50 PM (EST)

I've been around the water all my 56 years. Never been in a kayak.....yet! That will change tomorrow.
I just bought a Vapor and put a couple rod holders on it. Taking it to Beltzville tomorrow. Been doing alot of reading on line and can't figure a few things out.
I know I'm cheap but here goes. On e-bay I see alot of adds for paddle leashes, $10-$15, I went to K-mart and got a dog leash (red to match the boat!) $3.99.
I also see adds for water proof bags $5.-$7 how about ziplock? Then there's the tiny little water proof
plastic boxes for you wallet and stuff, my wallet and stuff would't fit in them anyway, and they want $5-$7 for them too! How about tupperware!? I can put all my junk in one of them, stuff it into my canvas tackle bag and throw another dog leash on that! Am I missing
something? or am I really,really cheap!!? Craig

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Table of Contents

Brand new, lots of questions - old_user - Oct-01-10 11:50 PM
- Frugal? - viking46 - Oct-02-10 12:58 PM
- Durability - Big_D - Oct-02-10 3:16 PM
  - thanks for the input - old_user - Oct-03-10 11:32 PM
    - I've seen dumber stuff. - Big_D - Oct-04-10 4:59 PM
      - dumber stuff.........me too! - old_user - Oct-10-10 12:16 AM
        
        I'm glad you're hooked - Big_D - Oct-10-10 1:39 PM
        
        same here - old_user - Oct-14-10 6:27 PM
        Big D I found this interesting - old_user - Oct-14-10 11:19 PM
        
        If you're doing class 3 & 4 - Big_D - Oct-15-10 9:53 AM
        
        Big D - old_user - Oct-16-10 1:18 AM
        
        AW - Big_D - Oct-18-10 1:33 PM
- resourceful - old_user - Jan-02-11 4:45 PM
- Kayaking on the cheap - Jdurrua - Feb-16-11 11:37 AM

Messages in this Topic

  Frugal?
  Posted by: viking46 on Oct-02-10 12:58 PM (EST)

No you are not cheap! - Just frugal and smart. A ziplock works just fine but does not have the fancy name brand on it - just like my jeans are not Lee's but fit the same.

Your dog leash is a good idea and will work - also costs a lot less than a leash "just built for Yaks". Just like my homemade roof rack made of left-over wood that I tie onto my Jeep. Cost me nothing but does not have the "Thule" label on it - still works though.

  Durability
  Posted by: Big_D on Oct-02-10 3:16 PM (EST)

The main difference between what you have elected to use and what is sold targeted for the sport is durability.

You can get deals on things this time of year. If you have electronic keys for your car, I do highly recommend getting a strong water-tight box designed for watersports, and then secure the box to your kayak. Saving the $8 cost of one of the more inexpensive boxes at Wal-Mart by using a ziplock bag may seem smart now, but when you take a flip and that ziplock sinks to the bottom and you're spending $85 for a replacement key and $300 for a replacement cell phone, it may not seem quite as smart.

  thanks for the input
  Posted by: old_user on Oct-03-10 11:32 PM (EST)

thank you Viking46, thats what I figured. Thank you too, Big_D, but I wasn't planning on throwing my cel
phone and keys into a ziplock bag and then onto the floor of the yak!I know I said I was a beginner but I guess I expected more credit than Visa would give me! My thought was more like, in a ziplock, then into a small tupperware, then into a canvas tackle bag tied to the boat.I'm not planning on Niagra Falls, quite honestly I don't know how you rate the rivers, I'm in northeast Pa. and on a normal day the Delaware and Lehigh don't look that scarey,......from my Tahoe!!
But most of my "yaking" will be in a lake. My first trip or 2 in a river will be fishing gearless. Wearing a PFD!How are the rivers rated anyway? Class I and class II ? My guess is the higher the class the higher the rocks and waves? ...Craig

  I've seen dumber stuff.
  Posted by: Big_D on Oct-04-10 4:59 PM (EST)

That sounds like a good system you've got planned.

Rapids are rated by a combination of difficulty, remoteness, ability to receive/provide assistance, likelihood to capsize, and repurcussions of a capsize. They are usually rated for open canoes.

Class 1 means you can run it blindfolded and backwards.
Class 2 means you should turn around and take the blindfold off.
Classes 3 through 5 require increasing levels of skill and insanity.

Although I have to say that I was pinned on a rock in a class 1 earlier this year. It doesn't pay to be careless.

- Big D

  dumber stuff.........me too!
  Posted by: old_user on Oct-10-10 12:16 AM (EST)

well, hit some white water today....cel phone in a ziplock with my keyless entry truck keys, dropped down my shirt. I thought was if it gets ugly and I get yanked from the yak I'll have my phone and keys.
.......meanwhile my wallet,credit cards,cash,priceless photos,names and numbers written on napkins from diners,.....ya know, stuff is saftley tucked under my a$$, you know, next to my brain $%^&*&^%. Anyway we launched into the Lehigh River in Pa. We had alot of rain. For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, these 2 newbies were launching into......well, what do you call it when the rapids are 2 ft. above the bow on your yak and the spray skirt has caved in? I know what I called it(yelled!) fortunately there was a key attached to my keyless entry! They say education is expensive. I'll let you know how expensive when I get back from the AT+T store tomorrow!! Now that I'm home in dry clothes........all I can say is....HOLY $XXT ! I'm HOOKED !! THAT WAS GREAT !!

  I'm glad you're hooked
  Posted by: Big_D on Oct-10-10 1:39 PM (EST)

What do I call it when the waves are two feet over my bow? Fun. That's what I call it. I'm not familiar with the ratings on the Lehigh River, but you may want to check out (and join) American Whitewater. Lots of excellent information on there about rivers, and a good organization to support.

Now, are you going to drop by an outfitter on your way to AT&T and pick up an Otter Box and a couple dry bags?

- Big D

  same here
  Posted by: old_user on Oct-14-10 6:27 PM (EST)

i do the same thing....screw paying so much ffor kayaking stuff. not cheap resourcefull

  Big D I found this interesting
  Posted by: old_user on Oct-14-10 11:19 PM (EST)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Scale_of_River_Difficulty

SHOOT !! I was hoping to make that a link !I guess I'm still learning about computers too! Any way if you go by how they class the whitewater we were in 3-4 class. I bought a helmet on e-bay tonight. My wife thinks I'm nuts!I told some friends about it and they got into it and we have a group of us going on Sunday
( I hope my helmet gets here!)One of them has a waterproof helmet cam he has stuck to a kids bicycle helmet........this should be good!I'm going to leave my "new" cel phone in the truck! No sense all of us bringing them right? Well, if you can think of any pointers please let me know. For now I'm going back to youtube for some yaking porn!! no really, they got all kinds of kayaking videos there !!

  If you're doing class 3 & 4
  Posted by: Big_D on Oct-15-10 9:53 AM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Oct-15-10 3:37 PM EST --

My suggestion is to take time over the winter to take rolling lessons. I don't have a solid roll and it limits the water I'll paddle.

Also, join a paddling club and take advantage of any classes they offer. While bumpy water is fun, you can get into trouble very, very fast. Do not underestimate the power of moving water. When things go bad, they go bad fast and you don't have time to think about what to do. You need to KNOW what to do.

Further, here are my patented rules for introduction to whitewater. Note that I am no whitewater guru. Class 3 is my max for kayaking. In class 4 or above, I want to be in a raft with someone a lot more knowledgable and capable than me in charge. That said, I'm not exactly a novice. Just a wuss.

Rules:
1. When in doubt, paddle like hell.
2. The fastest way for a paddler to become a swimmer is to stop paddling.
3. Hug the rock.
4. Attack the wave like it slapped your momma.
5. Feet up. All the time.

It is no accident that the first two rules are different ways of saying the same thing.

If Dirty Ed chimes in... listen to everything he says.

Here's some class 4. Is this the kind of water you were in? Class 4 is pretty gnarly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiGEim0Gnvo

- Big D

  Big D
  Posted by: old_user on Oct-16-10 1:18 AM (EST)

I watched that video you linked twice to be sure. I'd say there were 2 places we went through were close to that. Not quite that but........close. I'd say there were 2 times that I ......thought to myself I was in deep ......water. The spray skirt wasn't tight and turned in. Instead of going from my waist up it went from my waist down like a big funel.I had a few inches of water in the Kayak and wanted to fix the band on the spray skirt but was not about to let go of the paddle to fix it. At that point I figured, if it got that ugly I'd rather paddle my a$$ to shore sinking than wrestle the skirt and loose the paddle going sideways down the river in whitewater.That would been like my first marrige and I still have nightmares about that! I bought another yak on craigs list, oldtown castaway, a little longer,and NARROWER!
took it in a local lake and thought about going back to the bathtub! My first yak is an oldtown Vapor 10'
I call it the bath tub! The Castaway is faster...but also tips faster! I guess this is a bad time of year to take up yaking!!But when I told a couple friends about it they got into it and 1 bought a yak on e-bay that night!! As it stands now there is 4 of us going on Sunday. We're putting in a little further up stream and taking out a little further down. Figuring on about a 3 hour trip. .....I JUST READ OVER TO SPELL CHECK AND REALIZED WHAT I TYPED!! A 3 HOUR TRIP!! sounds like A 3 HOUR TOUR!! I am not naming my yak the MINNOW! One guy is bringing a cam, if all goes well, we'll put a link here for youtube if you want to see a few idiots going down the river.Let me know if we should put it here. Some friends think I'm nuts for doing this...what do I know..I'm married.

  AW
  Posted by: Big_D on Oct-18-10 1:33 PM (EST)

AmericanWhitewater.org is your friend.

Here is a page (I hope the link works) for Pennsylvania rivers. Check out the Lehigh listings. Three of them do contain class III rapids, so it sounds like your descriptions were pretty much on target. That's unusual for a beginner. Not meant as a slam, just a recognition that it takes a while to learn to read water. It's a skill like any other.

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/state-summary/state/PA/

- Big D

  resourceful
  Posted by: old_user on Jan-02-11 4:45 PM (EST)

na, you arent cheap, you are resourceful, basicly it all boils down to merchandising. i think your ideas are totaly effective

  Kayaking on the cheap
  Posted by: Jdurrua on Feb-16-11 11:37 AM (EST)

Craig
I still have a kayak from High school. (class of '85)
If I ever divided the price by the about of trips it has been on I figure it cost me about $.00001 a trip
:-)
Step one.... Get the wright kayak the wrong boat at the wright price is still the wrong kayak. ie.... You are a size 10 1/2 boots and you see a 85% off sale for 8 1/2 boot.... GREAT DEAL! Wrong boot :-(
Here is an idea.
Go to the Paddlesport show in Somerset NJ $10.00
Go to to manufactures from around the country about there kayaks... Talk to club members who have been paddling for years. Go to the free seminars (If you buy a ticket on Friday it is good for Saturday and Sunday too)
Once you know what you are looking for then go on ebay or like website and find the deal.
John

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	Frugal? Posted by: viking46 on Oct-02-10 12:58 PM (EST)
	No you are not cheap! - Just frugal and smart. A ziplock works just fine but does not have the fancy name brand on it - just like my jeans are not Lee's but fit the same. Your dog leash is a good idea and will work - also costs a lot less than a leash "just built for Yaks". Just like my homemade roof rack made of left-over wood that I tie onto my Jeep. Cost me nothing but does not have the "Thule" label on it - still works though.

	Durability Posted by: Big_D on Oct-02-10 3:16 PM (EST)
	The main difference between what you have elected to use and what is sold targeted for the sport is durability. You can get deals on things this time of year. If you have electronic keys for your car, I do highly recommend getting a strong water-tight box designed for watersports, and then secure the box to your kayak. Saving the $8 cost of one of the more inexpensive boxes at Wal-Mart by using a ziplock bag may seem smart now, but when you take a flip and that ziplock sinks to the bottom and you're spending $85 for a replacement key and $300 for a replacement cell phone, it may not seem quite as smart.

	thanks for the input Posted by: old_user on Oct-03-10 11:32 PM (EST)
	thank you Viking46, thats what I figured. Thank you too, Big_D, but I wasn't planning on throwing my cel phone and keys into a ziplock bag and then onto the floor of the yak!I know I said I was a beginner but I guess I expected more credit than Visa would give me! My thought was more like, in a ziplock, then into a small tupperware, then into a canvas tackle bag tied to the boat.I'm not planning on Niagra Falls, quite honestly I don't know how you rate the rivers, I'm in northeast Pa. and on a normal day the Delaware and Lehigh don't look that scarey,......from my Tahoe!! But most of my "yaking" will be in a lake. My first trip or 2 in a river will be fishing gearless. Wearing a PFD!How are the rivers rated anyway? Class I and class II ? My guess is the higher the class the higher the rocks and waves? ...Craig

	I've seen dumber stuff. Posted by: Big_D on Oct-04-10 4:59 PM (EST)
	That sounds like a good system you've got planned. Rapids are rated by a combination of difficulty, remoteness, ability to receive/provide assistance, likelihood to capsize, and repurcussions of a capsize. They are usually rated for open canoes. Class 1 means you can run it blindfolded and backwards. Class 2 means you should turn around and take the blindfold off. Classes 3 through 5 require increasing levels of skill and insanity. Although I have to say that I was pinned on a rock in a class 1 earlier this year. It doesn't pay to be careless. - Big D

	dumber stuff.........me too! Posted by: old_user on Oct-10-10 12:16 AM (EST)
	well, hit some white water today....cel phone in a ziplock with my keyless entry truck keys, dropped down my shirt. I thought was if it gets ugly and I get yanked from the yak I'll have my phone and keys. .......meanwhile my wallet,credit cards,cash,priceless photos,names and numbers written on napkins from diners,.....ya know, stuff is saftley tucked under my a$$, you know, next to my brain $%^&*&^%. Anyway we launched into the Lehigh River in Pa. We had alot of rain. For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, these 2 newbies were launching into......well, what do you call it when the rapids are 2 ft. above the bow on your yak and the spray skirt has caved in? I know what I called it(yelled!) fortunately there was a key attached to my keyless entry! They say education is expensive. I'll let you know how expensive when I get back from the AT+T store tomorrow!! Now that I'm home in dry clothes........all I can say is....HOLY $XXT ! I'm HOOKED !! THAT WAS GREAT !!

	I'm glad you're hooked Posted by: Big_D on Oct-10-10 1:39 PM (EST)
	What do I call it when the waves are two feet over my bow? Fun. That's what I call it. I'm not familiar with the ratings on the Lehigh River, but you may want to check out (and join) American Whitewater. Lots of excellent information on there about rivers, and a good organization to support. Now, are you going to drop by an outfitter on your way to AT&T and pick up an Otter Box and a couple dry bags? - Big D

	same here Posted by: old_user on Oct-14-10 6:27 PM (EST)
	i do the same thing....screw paying so much ffor kayaking stuff. not cheap resourcefull

	Big D I found this interesting Posted by: old_user on Oct-14-10 11:19 PM (EST)
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Scale_of_River_Difficulty SHOOT !! I was hoping to make that a link !I guess I'm still learning about computers too! Any way if you go by how they class the whitewater we were in 3-4 class. I bought a helmet on e-bay tonight. My wife thinks I'm nuts!I told some friends about it and they got into it and we have a group of us going on Sunday ( I hope my helmet gets here!)One of them has a waterproof helmet cam he has stuck to a kids bicycle helmet........this should be good!I'm going to leave my "new" cel phone in the truck! No sense all of us bringing them right? Well, if you can think of any pointers please let me know. For now I'm going back to youtube for some yaking porn!! no really, they got all kinds of kayaking videos there !!

	If you're doing class 3 & 4 Posted by: Big_D on Oct-15-10 9:53 AM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Oct-15-10 3:37 PM EST -- My suggestion is to take time over the winter to take rolling lessons. I don't have a solid roll and it limits the water I'll paddle. Also, join a paddling club and take advantage of any classes they offer. While bumpy water is fun, you can get into trouble very, very fast. Do not underestimate the power of moving water. When things go bad, they go bad fast and you don't have time to think about what to do. You need to KNOW what to do. Further, here are my patented rules for introduction to whitewater. Note that I am no whitewater guru. Class 3 is my max for kayaking. In class 4 or above, I want to be in a raft with someone a lot more knowledgable and capable than me in charge. That said, I'm not exactly a novice. Just a wuss. Rules: 1. When in doubt, paddle like hell. 2. The fastest way for a paddler to become a swimmer is to stop paddling. 3. Hug the rock. 4. Attack the wave like it slapped your momma. 5. Feet up. All the time. It is no accident that the first two rules are different ways of saying the same thing. If Dirty Ed chimes in... listen to everything he says. Here's some class 4. Is this the kind of water you were in? Class 4 is pretty gnarly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiGEim0Gnvo - Big D

	Big D Posted by: old_user on Oct-16-10 1:18 AM (EST)
	I watched that video you linked twice to be sure. I'd say there were 2 places we went through were close to that. Not quite that but........close. I'd say there were 2 times that I ......thought to myself I was in deep ......water. The spray skirt wasn't tight and turned in. Instead of going from my waist up it went from my waist down like a big funel.I had a few inches of water in the Kayak and wanted to fix the band on the spray skirt but was not about to let go of the paddle to fix it. At that point I figured, if it got that ugly I'd rather paddle my a$$ to shore sinking than wrestle the skirt and loose the paddle going sideways down the river in whitewater.That would been like my first marrige and I still have nightmares about that! I bought another yak on craigs list, oldtown castaway, a little longer,and NARROWER! took it in a local lake and thought about going back to the bathtub! My first yak is an oldtown Vapor 10' I call it the bath tub! The Castaway is faster...but also tips faster! I guess this is a bad time of year to take up yaking!!But when I told a couple friends about it they got into it and 1 bought a yak on e-bay that night!! As it stands now there is 4 of us going on Sunday. We're putting in a little further up stream and taking out a little further down. Figuring on about a 3 hour trip. .....I JUST READ OVER TO SPELL CHECK AND REALIZED WHAT I TYPED!! A 3 HOUR TRIP!! sounds like A 3 HOUR TOUR!! I am not naming my yak the MINNOW! One guy is bringing a cam, if all goes well, we'll put a link here for youtube if you want to see a few idiots going down the river.Let me know if we should put it here. Some friends think I'm nuts for doing this...what do I know..I'm married.

	AW Posted by: Big_D on Oct-18-10 1:33 PM (EST)
	AmericanWhitewater.org is your friend. Here is a page (I hope the link works) for Pennsylvania rivers. Check out the Lehigh listings. Three of them do contain class III rapids, so it sounds like your descriptions were pretty much on target. That's unusual for a beginner. Not meant as a slam, just a recognition that it takes a while to learn to read water. It's a skill like any other. http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/state-summary/state/PA/ - Big D

	resourceful Posted by: old_user on Jan-02-11 4:45 PM (EST)
	na, you arent cheap, you are resourceful, basicly it all boils down to merchandising. i think your ideas are totaly effective

	Kayaking on the cheap Posted by: Jdurrua on Feb-16-11 11:37 AM (EST)
	Craig I still have a kayak from High school. (class of '85) If I ever divided the price by the about of trips it has been on I figure it cost me about $.00001 a trip :-) Step one.... Get the wright kayak the wrong boat at the wright price is still the wrong kayak. ie.... You are a size 10 1/2 boots and you see a 85% off sale for 8 1/2 boot.... GREAT DEAL! Wrong boot :-( Here is an idea. Go to the Paddlesport show in Somerset NJ $10.00 Go to to manufactures from around the country about there kayaks... Talk to club members who have been paddling for years. Go to the free seminars (If you buy a ticket on Friday it is good for Saturday and Sunday too) Once you know what you are looking for then go on ebay or like website and find the deal. John