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  New NYS DEC Reg's for Invasive Species
  Posted by: Celia on Jan-31-14 10:02 AM (EST)

These reg's are open for comment until Feb 24. They affect all craft including kayaks and canoes at boat launches. Or maybe if there is a further checkpoint - didn't read them yet myself.

From the ADK newsletter -

"Some important recreational Boat Regulations were proposed early in 2014. On January 8th the NYS DEC announced a proposed rule-making which will affect State Boat Launching Sites, Fishing Access Sites, and Fishing Rights Areas. The purpose of the new regulation is to limit the spread of Aquatic Invasive Species. This new regulation applies to all watercraft, including kayaks, canoes, and any other recreational water transport device, as well as the trailer used to haul the watercraft.

In brief, "the proposed revised regulations will restrict the transport of aquatic invasive species to and from state boat launching facilities and require boats to be drained before launching at or leaving a NYS DEC boat launch." DEC is accepting comments on the proposed regulations until February 24th. You can find more information here.Z"

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Messages in this Topic


  not to nitpick but............
  Posted by: trout on Jan-31-14 12:37 PM (EST)
Celia ...i think this is the site you were concerned about , that would best apply to in state and visiting boaters >
  I meant the first - for comment info
  Posted by: Celia on Jan-31-14 8:33 PM (EST)
I was thinking some might want to submit comments, which address info is listed under the link to the actual reg's.

The info on how to comment may be in the reg's somewhere too. I just didn't spend time looking there once I saw that first link had a link to the text of the new reg's as well as "Comment to" info.

But your link is likely faster if all someone wants to do is read the reg's.
  If they couldn't stop a well muscled
  Posted by: g2d on Jan-31-14 2:40 PM (EST)
zebra, how can they expect to stop "Personal Watercraft"?
  Ok soo
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jan-31-14 11:35 PM (EST)
Not sure why I would care about this as a kayaker. Its not like I have my kayak full of water when I leave. So not sure why I would care about this. Iam I misunderstanding how this would have any effect on me?
  Only if you want to launch your kayak
  Posted by: Celia on Feb-01-14 9:10 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-01-14 12:23 PM EST --

I am guessing that you have not paddled in an area where this kind of thing is a concern.

If you read blurb, you will see that it is about (1) being inspected to leave OR launch and (2) any risk that the water in your boat could contain bad things. It hardly takes a cockpit full of sloshing water for that to be an issue.

Zebra mussels for ex are all of a half an inch long - very easy for them to be hiding in water under the seat of a kayak or under float bags in a canoe. Obviously plant portions or spore can be in even smaller spaces.

Maybe this is not the case around you, but in NY state there are tons of well developed launch sites that are officially the responsibility of a state agency (DEC) but are not staffed. Hence the reasons for some question marks around the inspection part.

PS - just checked your profile and you are western NY state. As far as I know zebra mussels have pretty much "locked through" and are out your way. You should have already bumped into the kind of discussion that guideboatguy does below better than I did.

  The critters being targeted ...
  Posted by: Guideboatguy on Feb-01-14 10:24 AM (EST)
... are most often microscopic. Zebra mussels are the ones we hear about the most, and even they make most of their leaps from one body of water to the next in the larval stage which is too small for you to see. So, no one can do anything to avoid the risk of taking them OUT of a body of water, but by cleaning your boat you can avoid taking them TO your next destination.
  Only in New York...
  Posted by: yakfisher on Feb-01-14 3:27 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-01-14 3:37 PM EST --

would anyone actually be stupid enough to think these regulations will do anything to prevent the spread of zebra mussels. These critters can easily hitch a ride on waterfowl when they are in the microscopic larval stage. In fact this is exactly how ponds created by beavers in the middle of a forest get populated with fish.

These regs. were obviously crafted by people of the same mentality as Bloomberg who thinks banning Big Gulps will cure obesity, thinks banning guns will prevent murders, taxing the hell out of Cigs will keep people from smoking, and and driving a Prius will save polar bears.

  And elsewhere
  Posted by: Celia on Feb-01-14 3:52 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-01-14 9:59 PM EST --

A clip from a report to the Connecticut General Assembly in 2011. I am sure things are more restrictive now as these things have continued to spread.:
"Of the eight states in the Great Lakes region, two have laws (Michigan and New York); four have regulations (Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin); and one (Minnesota) has laws and regulations relating to zebra mussels. (Illinois has none.) In New England, Vermont has a law and New Hampshire has regulations concerning zebra mussels. While many of these states make it unlawful to transport or possess zebra mussels, Michigan and Minnesota have extensive civil and criminal penalties for violating laws regarding zebra mussels."

Full text of the report is here, with more details of each state's regs.

It was one search, at the top, to find this report.

I don't know that these measures will work well. But either something useful needs to be offered, or you need to be OK with a boat full of bilge water with zebra mussels or milfoil launching in the lake nearest you.

  The Black-and-White Mentality
  Posted by: Guideboatguy on Feb-01-14 5:00 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-01-14 5:32 PM EST --

Some people are only happy if they can partition every issue into black and white, especially if they can thereby convince themselves that anyone who isn't of the same mindset is obviously stupid. To my way of thinking, seeing things in such stark contrast, of black and white and right and wrong, looks like nothing but a method to avoid actually thinking. In the real world, nothing is actually so clear and easy. It's true, some organisms can be transported by birds, but is that a reason to simply accept the fact that many very simple human activities are actually many millions of times more effective at causing such transport (both in terms of distance and probability/magnitude)? To you, the answer appears to be "yes".

Other people will say the answer is "no", and are much more likely to see value in doing something to slow this process (notice that I said "slow" the process, not "prevent" it, and even to assume the that the intended purpose is to "prevent" is an example of side-stepping reality to simplify a viewpoint). In a world that is NOT black and white, slowing the process can be seen as better than doing nothing at all. At the very least, maybe the result will be that one less generation will watch their favorite lake degrade to an unacceptably low standard compared to what they now know (this could even include your own kids or grand kids). On a more-optimistic note, we don't yet know what control measures the research for combating these organisms will yield, but if that work is successful for any given species, the work that follows would likely be immensely more successful or be accompanied by lesser amounts of unwanted environmental side-effects if the species being fought hasn't been allowed to spread as far and wide as would have occurred otherwise (I'm tempted to introduce the related problem of putting value on basic research (you can't make discoveries without money), but that's for another day).

Still, I recognize that lots of people can look at a lake that's been drastically degraded within the time span of their own memory, and just not care. I personally don't understand that way of thinking (just as I can't understand this new push to eliminate many of the types of regulations which brought back so many lakes and rivers to good health after they'd become open sewers), but I also know I can't convince some of those people that those who do care simply have a different value system, and are not merely stupid.

  I didn't read the reg,
  Posted by: jackl on Feb-02-14 8:36 AM (EST)
but I would think that in the Adirondacks they are more concerned with the spread of invasive water plants, and if that is the case, I am one hundred percent with them.
Each year when we do the 90 miler up there, there are volunteers at each of the portages, that inspect every ones boat for plant life being carried from one lake to the next.
I used to think it was BS, but have completely changed my mind after seeing some of the places that are so clogged with the invasive plant species that you can not paddle them any more.
This year and last year instead of bitching at the ten second delay at the portages, I thanked each of the volunteers.
One of the worst ones that I have ever seen is the head waters of the Turner River in Florida.
Ten years ago we could go all the way watching the large gars swimming under your boat. Little by little the hydrilla closed it in and every year it got progressively worse until the sorry shape that it is in now. The gar are gone and the upper portion is completely closed off.

jack L
  Clean the boat
  Posted by: Harry0244 on Feb-02-14 10:09 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-02-14 10:29 AM EST --

While I recognize that boaters are not the entire problem with invasive species, I do what I can not to aggravate it. It only takes a couple minutes to wipe the boat down with my bailing sponge wet with the bleach and water solution in the plastic bottle rattling around in the bed of my truck. Maybe it is a waste of time, but it does no harm, and my boat looks cleaner.

  I don't think most paddlers are the
  Posted by: spiritboat on Feb-02-14 11:01 AM (EST)
problem when it comes to vessel cleanliness.
Power boaters and bait buckets are probably the biggest offenders...Rock snot, Milfoil, Asian clams, Zebra Mussels, and a host of different non-native fish as well--All hitchhike rides in an assortment of ways, if they aren't directly released as with bait buckets.
Welcome to the Global Village.

The NY reservoirs made it mandatory to have your boat now steam-pressure cleaned by a certified vendor before entering a water body(Good for the local vendor and economy at $12-$15 a pop, bad for poor paddler's like me.) I hope something of the same procedure never becomes the reg for rivers, lakes and other waterways around the state.
  It was bound to happen
  Posted by: pikabike on Feb-02-14 8:42 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-02-14 8:46 PM EST --

I'm surprised NY didn't institute ZM precautions much earlier.

Boat inspections are a PITA. While I have no way of knowing how zealously various managing groups in your state will handle them, here's a summary of what happened in CO. When they panicked over the ZM threat, different ways to handle kayaks and other non-motorized vessels cropped up. In some cases, the law read one way but implementation was given a healthy dose of discretion, depending on the particular location and the officials in charge there. The powers-that-be generally viewed kayaks and canoes as constituting low risk in the first place.

* At one municipal reservoir with only one road in (guardhouse), incoming traffic was divided into a "car-only" lane and a "boat" lane. The latter included ANY vessel that went in the water whether trailered or not, ramp-loaded or not. Each boating rig had to be inspected right there, but the thoroughness of the inspection depended heavily on whether the boat had any enclosed water-holding area or not and how wet or dirty the boat was (either inside or out). Because I always hosed and wiped my kayaks after every paddle, my boats usually got just a quick look before being given the go-ahead. HOWEVER--this was a big however--if the boat had gone to any location suspected or known to have ZM, it got the full inspection. I made it a policy never to paddle in such places, so I breezed through.

* At a different municipal park, there were no inspections of human-powered boats, period. I don't know if they were waiting to figure out details or simply considered it too low a risk to worry about. But at this reservoir, ONLY human-powered boats were allowed, no powerboats or electric motors allowed.

* At one state park, the policy required that "all trailered boats" undergo inspection. But upon closer questioning, it turned out that my kayak that was merely transported via trailer but then hand-carried from the parking area to the water was exempt. Their line was drawn based on whether the trailer's wheels entered water or not. Given that powerboaters were angry about long lines even before the ZM inspections began, I think park mgmt wasn't going to press hand-launched vessels to join that line and add more fuel to the fire. Especially given what they viewed as low risk anyway.

* At one USFS reservoir (a place said to have ZM), boat inspections were required. The last time I went there predated the ZM era, so I don't know how kayaks were treated later.

* At another federal reservoir, boat inspections were also required. I don't remember it being an ordeal; it was done right at the launch area. Word was that IF the boat had signs of contamination, it would undergo the extreme-hot-powerwash treatment, mandatory quarantine, etcetcetc.

Outside of CO but within a day's drive, the last time I went to Lake Powell, I had to get my boat inspected, whereupon a PARKING STUB indicating the passed inspection had to be displayed on my truck's dashboard. Same as above if contamination was suspected.

When driving through ID, my husband and I had to get our boats inspected before we could paddle at a lake. We had to go to the inspection location, which was not specific to the venue but covered the entire state. There were signs on the highway stating that all boats passing through the state had to be inspected! I don't know if that wording was just very badly done or if they meant it. What if we had no intention of paddling there at all?!?!!!

Very important thing to keep in mind: At Lake Powell, where they had to be really up on the ZM problem due to houseboat presence, the rangers told me that just because a boat doesn't have scads of mussels encrusting doesn't mean it's clean. The miniscule larvae can survive for a long time in even a little bit of water (bilge, cockpit, hatches), and they can be attached to the exterior while invisible. The inspectors run their bare hands over the boat to feel for any gritty or sandy feel--that could be larvae attached to the boat.

  Rock snot
  Posted by: okayeh on Feb-02-14 10:10 PM (EST)
It took one year for rock snot/diddymo to really make a river I paddled on look like s%^t. I really don't care to swim in it anymore. The organism, as far as anyone knows, was transported in cork soles from N.Z. to N.B where the soles where used for fishing. It ran down into other rivers in no time. No matter what I did/do I couldn't stop it. But, after being in it I wash my boat, boots, paddles, ropes and anything that was in the canoe touching water. I try to limit what I can. It's not in the rivers closest to me yet.
I don't know how anyone who paddles can see a river wrecked and not be bothered?
  it's tough to get indignant about
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Feb-13-14 11:48 AM (EST)
washing my kayak. But apparently not tough enough.


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