Wilderness Systems composites
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-20-13 9:17 AM (EST)
Curious if anyone has seen 2013 composite Tempests? The reason I ask is that four years ago I saw a Chinese built Zephyr that wasn't too strong in the cockpit, cracks easily developed in the chines. Then we got a 2012 Zephyr and it appears to be more durable. Recently we got a Tsunami 165 composite and it is built like a brick with substantial thickness of knit cloth beyond the core in the bottom of the hull.
Sport Cases (Electronics)
First Need Purifier
Custom Greenland Paddles
Electric Kayak Motor
|Table of Contents|
|Messages in this Topic|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Aug-20-13 9:19 AM (EST)
(it's fortified with surplus Royalex)
Posted by: jesse59 on Aug-20-13 5:16 PM (EST)
Most of them I've seen are actually overbuilt. They seem to be heavier than comparable Current Designs kayaks and other brands.
Typical junk from China|
Posted by: yakfisher on Aug-21-13 10:20 PM (EST)
I used to want a composite Tempest but wouldn't touch one of the new ones made in China. A guy I paddle with bought one and had the same issues with cracking, not to mention a leaking skeg box. Also, the Wilderness Systems logo is put on with stick on letters that immediately began falling off the kayak. Perhaps that is intentional because they don't want their name to still be on the Chinese made POS when it starts falling apart. LOL
I understand that they are USA built|
Posted by: desertdave on Aug-21-13 10:26 PM (EST)
now, from folks I spoke to in the industry. That might be why there appears to have been a more recent change in how they appear build-wise.
There is one on Craigslist here|
Posted by: yakfisher on Aug-21-13 10:37 PM (EST)
Maybe the black accent .......|
Posted by: chodups on Aug-22-13 7:18 AM (EST)
.....only comes on Tempests that are "blazingly fast". If I take a magic marker to mine will that make it a fast boat?
I doubt it|
Posted by: yakfisher on Aug-22-13 9:40 AM (EST)
but it will sure make it look f---ed up. LOL
That's what I was wondering|
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-22-13 2:03 AM (EST)
This glass Taunami has core material only in the hull bottom to the first chine and where the glass continues up to the sheer it's a substantial knit cloth. Most of the Chinese boats I've seen have the entire hull cored with very fine cloth on the interior and exterior. The kayak looks more sturdily built than the few composites I've seen from WS in the past.
Word from the Tempest owners group|
Posted by: edzep on Aug-22-13 7:24 AM (EST)
...is that the composites are now made in Estonia.
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-22-13 10:00 AM (EST)
While not light they look like an improvement over the Chinese ones.
Posted by: landsharc on Aug-22-13 12:56 PM (EST)
I've been told by WS that there was a consistency issue. This may be right because I had 2 2009's and I have a 2010 right now. the 09's where returned for various things but the 2010 is much better. I dont know if it was an accident or not but it has ZERO quality issues. No leaks. The stick on letter were also used on the pre 09's and are still used. My hull has taken beatings and is fine so far. It is still one of the best designed hulls on the market. There were plenty of issues with pre 09 models when they were build so called better. I know people who had them. I heard the stories. so I guess there is nothing to see here. I think as far as the china boats go if you got a bad one, you got a bad one but if you got a good one you got a good one. lets see how estonia does. not everyone is completly impressed with tahe builds either. time will tell. In the mean time I will paddle my perfectly good 2010 tempest pro and hope for the best.
I had an early Chinese made Z.......|
Posted by: chodups on Aug-22-13 8:21 PM (EST)
.....and the first one that was delivered had a mutitude of longitudinal cracks from shipping. It was reported and replaced with another boat that seemed to have zero flaws. I paddled it hard for two years. The hatches were so tight that I vented them. They were always 100% dry. I never got cracking and I had lots of breaking waves dumped on top of this boat in water not deep enough to float the hull.
Posted by: landsharc on Aug-23-13 8:23 AM (EST)
wish they would make it in white again
From a WS manager.|
Posted by: string on Aug-23-13 11:58 AM (EST)
The Chinese production of the composite boats stopped in the beginning of 2012 due to many quality issues, some of them described on the web site quoted in your email. Since late 2012 all composites are manufactured by Tahe Marine in Estonia. These guys make their own composite brand, and are truly experts in epoxy boats.
Good to hear|
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-23-13 3:21 PM (EST)
The Estonian Tsunami boat looks hella strong. Good to know the Tempest line is similar.
Confluence should stick to Tupperware|
Posted by: yakfisher on Aug-24-13 12:43 PM (EST)
Regarding their US made......|
Posted by: chodups on Aug-24-13 5:53 PM (EST)
....composites.......I've heard lots of folks say that the US made Tempests were well made but that was not my experience. In fact, my Chinese Z exhibited much greater attention to detail and better lay-up. My T-170 Pro was US made in April 2008. When I got it it leaked horribly. I'm talking disgustingly horrible. The skeg box leaked in a crazy fashion and the day hatch and front hatch were very wet.
Posted by: yakfisher on Aug-24-13 9:39 PM (EST)
Posted by: landsharc on Aug-26-13 9:17 AM (EST)
good friend of mine had and american tempest pro. The seam at the stern let go and the stern and hull were separated at the end. Bad end pour? no end pour? no tape? just a bad job. His was before '06 and still had the ws hatch lids. His were wet. He did like the hull but didnt fix it. his stick on letter came off as many others did. I cant call that an issue. I have an avocet rm with decals that say valley that get all scraped up and torn up.
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-24-13 10:47 PM (EST)
The hulls of the old Perception composite kayaks were good, except for the seams. Nearly every old Perception SeaLion or Shadow I saw had extensive degradation and fracturing of glass fibers at the seam because the butt joint of the deck and hull met at a sharp angle with light fine weave glass on the exterior. With no interior fillet and light glass on the exterior it was easy for things to open up.
I have never seen but one|
Posted by: Yakfisher on Aug-25-13 5:47 PM (EST)
Posted by: landsharc on Aug-26-13 9:07 AM (EST)
There are a few things I wish WS did better in their composite builds but until I actually have a problem im not going to go crazy. so far in 3 years with the 2010 there have been no issues. I mean zero. which was good because it allowed me some time to work on a friends impex force 3. The bulk heads leaked and the skeg broke twice. But I still like impex and think its a good boat. also, the hull in the force 3 is way more flexy than in my china boat. I believe there was a qc issue in ws and time will tell if there still is but find me a boat that someone isnt complaining about something with it or doesnt like this or doesnt like that. I choose kayaks based on their hull design and what I want it for. I fix or customize whatever I dont care about. But I really would like white on white. Jon I saw your pics...beautiful
My Perception composites have been|
Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-26-13 12:49 PM (EST)
excellent. I've had a 2004 Eclipse 17 Sea Lion and a Shadow 16.5 with no obvious flaws.
Hopefully, they got their dies back.|
Posted by: shirlann on Sep-09-13 12:43 AM (EST)
Did Barton ever get his back from China? Word was that when he decided he didn't want them to make anymore, they refused to give him back the dies.
I bet if he didn't|
Posted by: Yakfisher on Sep-14-13 10:29 PM (EST)
Walmart will be selling cheap Chinese made knock offs of the Wilderness composite models soon.