-- Last Updated: May-17-07 7:12 PM EST --
I got a used Dagger RPM. I wanted to use it on local smooth rivers and low class whitewater. I am new to a very short sea kayak like this at about 7 feet. A nice portage compared to my other playboat, the 16 plus foot Valley Avocet, I thought. I was hoping it'd have as much play as the Avocet, but fit better in my truck bed.
I tried it in my back pond with a Werner bent shaft Correyvrecken, 220cm, and all I did was whirl around. I get it going straight for about 10 strokes, then all I do is look the wrong way, and the thing "wipes out" in the water, turning nearly 360 degrees in a millisecond. I checked the back end, no place for a freaking rudder even if I buy one separately. I flipped it over: no skeg! I really don't see how anyone is expected to keep this thing going forward on a river if I can't get it going straight on flatwater. I question the hull design.
And man, don't try to edge this bad boy while it's turning like a dervish or the back end sinks in and I feel like I'm going to pitchpole.
If I wet exit on a long crossing, I really wonder if I can self rescue in this thing. It would probably be like trying to climb on the back of a greased pig.
Anyone else have issues with Dagger?
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES>< SCROLL TO MY POST BELOW FOR UPDATE AND PHOTOS>
Canoe / Kayak Anchors
Recreational Kayak Paddle
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Are being serious|
Posted by: kkaykk on May-14-07 9:06 PM (EST)
That boat is NOT a short sea kayak it is more of a WW boat. You mentioned a RPM which is an inch shy of 9 feet long. In the picture you posted it is the RPM MAX which is a slightly larger version. You are trying to use a touring paddle with this boat and it is not going to work well. It is a great little boat, I use it in small surf (under 2 meters) and it's lots of fun. You paddle it like you would a WW boat. If it doesn't have foot pegs you can insert foam blocks. It is probably the easiest boat to roll on the planet.
Posted by: CD1 on May-14-07 9:14 PM (EST)
Kkayak, mine is not the Max, so yes, maybe it is closer to 8 feet. What length/size paddle should I use? How in the name of Sam Heck do you get it to track straight in 2 foot seas, may I please ask.
Just paddle it|
Posted by: tsunamichuck on May-15-07 11:41 PM (EST)
an use body English. It will make you a better paddler. Dancers & Crossfires are better for long crossings though
Its not meant to be paddled in the|
Posted by: kkaykk on May-14-07 9:23 PM (EST)
ocean. I own a RPM and a MAX and Animas all Dagger models. You paddle these boats it in fast moving waters like on rivers, or in surf, etc. Do you own any WW boats? You wouldn't use them as a touring boat would you? When I paddle the boat I use a 197cm lendal. Try the boat in some class 2 or 3 rivers if there are any near you.
Posted by: corgimas on May-15-07 9:01 AM (EST)
"That boat is NOT a short sea kayak it is more of a WW boat."
Pirouette is easier to roll ;-)|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on May-15-07 9:17 AM (EST)
And from my experience and others, the easiest boat to roll might be a Piedra.
cooldoctor, you just have to practice.|
Posted by: ezwater on May-14-07 9:57 PM (EST)
Dagger WW boats are no different from other whitewater boats.
paddling ww boats|
Posted by: angstrom on May-14-07 10:14 PM (EST)
You can't be serious|
Posted by: davejjj on May-14-07 10:20 PM (EST)
When did you get this one?|
Posted by: bruce on May-14-07 10:31 PM (EST)
It will help your foreward stroke|
Posted by: haresfur on May-14-07 11:24 PM (EST)
Keep at it. Paddle at the front, Try to get a shorter paddle. It will never paddle like a sea kayak but it will let you see turning forces you are putting into your stroke without knowing it.
Posted by: angstrom on May-15-07 8:54 AM (EST)
Posted by: angstrom on May-15-07 9:27 AM (EST)
Posted by: Celia on May-15-07 9:34 AM (EST)
BTW, my scratched up old Piedra is the easiest boat to roll...
dude, you crack me up...|
Posted by: schizopak on May-15-07 10:33 AM (EST)
meet me at Clinton|
Posted by: silverwave on May-15-07 10:48 AM (EST)
Lake again -- Sat AM - this time I'll buy YOUR boat cooldoc -- seriously, I'm in the market for a WW boat
Posted by: kelvin1 on May-15-07 7:35 PM (EST)
You need more buoyancy in the front as well if you put float bags in the back. I've seen what happens to an RPM with just the float bags in the back and it ended up bow down with the tail in the air before the paddler could get back in.
Long Crossings With RPM...|
Posted by: sing on May-16-07 6:47 AM (EST)
it's highly suggested by RPM experts that an electric bilge pump is just the thing... :) Probably more important than an add-on skeg or rudder.
Posted by: bryanhansel on May-15-07 11:50 AM (EST)
How much will you sell this defective kayak for?
Pamlico_14 lives on|
Posted by: daggermat on May-15-07 12:21 PM (EST)
Get A Prijon!|
Posted by: sing on May-15-07 4:09 PM (EST)
And I've got the Prijon to prove it!!!|
Posted by: pikabike on May-15-07 10:00 PM (EST)
Fast, tracks straight, super-stable, doesn't scratch, doesn't fade.
Posted by: old_user on May-15-07 5:23 PM (EST)
you're damaging the sea kayaking industry by buying that plastic tub
Dude - - - - - This ain't right|
Posted by: yulester on May-15-07 10:04 PM (EST)
You realize your paddle may be longer than your boat - - - - -
Hook up with Team Dirt Clod..........|
Posted by: yanoer on May-15-07 10:21 PM (EST)
...agreed, one to be archived!!!|
Posted by: bigspencer on May-16-07 10:59 AM (EST)
Can be done|
Posted by: boyscout on May-16-07 2:50 PM (EST)
Actually, I think the problem|
Posted by: HappyCamperToo on May-16-07 5:40 PM (EST)
is that these boats are supposed to be sold in pairs, and you connect them via a sailing rig and cargo hammock, much like the Hobie Catamarans.
don't forget the drain plug|
Posted by: brazilbrasil on May-16-07 5:51 PM (EST)
in the middle at the bottom of the hull like your sea yak!
Please do not|
Posted by: tsunamichuck on May-17-07 1:15 AM (EST)
drill holes in the RPM. It does not need them. It is a great boat to learn to roll as well as being a good river runner and surf boat.
Posted by: old_user on May-17-07 7:12 AM (EST)
...you need help.
THANK YOU! PICTURES.|
Posted by: CD1 on May-17-07 7:28 PM (EST)
You crack me up!|
Posted by: yanoer on May-17-07 10:45 PM (EST)
Your're drinking PBR? No wonder you expect a whitewater boat to have bulkheads.
Not cool, but definitely doctored. *NM*|
Posted by: greyak on May-17-07 11:02 PM (EST)
Posted by: old_user on May-18-07 4:09 AM (EST)
funniest kayaking photo I've ever seen
Posted by: old_user on Nov-07-07 9:08 AM (EST)
So you took a whitewater kayak and tried to transform it into a 9' touring boat.
Everyone needs to lighten up.|
Posted by: old_user on May-18-07 12:52 AM (EST)
I'm trying, but............|
Posted by: yanoer on May-18-07 12:56 AM (EST)
I keep eating ice cream.
That's Exactly What We Are Doin'!|
Posted by: sing on May-18-07 5:55 AM (EST)
CD is proving that "laughter is the best medicine!"
Have You Consider...|
Posted by: sing on May-18-07 5:53 AM (EST)
a career change? Some of the boat manufacturers are looking for the next great boat designer. I think you're doing as well as some of the current folks getting paid to do what you did for fun. :)
Posted by: Celia on May-18-07 8:30 AM (EST)
Great photos. Love to see you figure out a knee tube tho'
Posted by: old_user on May-18-07 8:40 AM (EST)
And foot pump and skeg box. You've pulled off what p140 could not...thanks for the laughs!
This thread is a riot- CD maybe there|
Posted by: bruce on May-18-07 8:59 AM (EST)
is an opportunity for you in an alternative branch of medicine:
....I hope you live to post.....|
Posted by: bigspencer on May-19-07 7:55 PM (EST)
some more CD!
new or sumthin?|
Posted by: old_user on Nov-10-07 5:40 PM (EST)
R u new 2 paddling? I mean, it is a WW boat, a creeker @ that. It is SUPPOSED to turn and carve like that. You have to turn real fast runnin rivers. Did you buy it to paddle flatwater? You should have done more research if u did
the rpm is for whitewater???|
Posted by: old_user on Apr-21-09 6:41 AM (EST)
not the ocean??? it is a great first boat for learning to navigate and play in a river.