2 or 3 man tent - Canoeing / Kayaking

Table of Contents

2 or 3 man tent - gillguy - Nov-30-06 10:05 PM
- Eureka has a few good choices - Paddlinpals - Nov-30-06 10:27 PM
  - Eureka Mountain Pass 2XT - old_user - Dec-03-06 10:25 AM
    - Eureka - old_user - Dec-03-06 1:20 PM
- Hi gillguy - old_user - Nov-30-06 10:34 PM
- Scan through here - trmoraine - Nov-30-06 10:39 PM
  - maybe not in your price range - medicineman - Nov-30-06 11:23 PM
    - tents - old_user - Nov-30-06 11:43 PM
      - tents - old_user - Dec-01-06 2:11 AM
- Eureka and REI - old_user - Dec-01-06 2:39 AM
- One night in a wet tent - old_user - Dec-01-06 7:59 AM
  - Footprint - Dsorgnzd - Dec-01-06 10:42 AM
    - Rain under the Footprint - mdloon100 - Dec-01-06 1:22 PM
  - oh no - fadedred - Dec-01-06 11:29 AM
    - Just to be fair, remember... - guideboatguy - Dec-08-06 1:12 PM
      - Sorry - fadedred - Dec-08-06 2:54 PM
        
        My "mileage" didn't "vary" - guideboatguy - Dec-08-06 5:23 PM
        
        Animal "reasoning, jackpots and food - old_user - Dec-08-06 10:18 PM
        Double Sorry - fadedred - Dec-09-06 10:37 AM
- MEC Tarn 2 - VK1NF - Dec-01-06 9:44 AM
- equipment shelter/tent - canoedancing - Dec-01-06 12:05 PM
- Try this site.... - tjalmy - Dec-01-06 8:22 PM
  - Found another but, - gillguy - Dec-01-06 9:49 PM
    - sketchy - old_user - Dec-02-06 12:20 AM
    - I picked up - Paddlinpals - Dec-08-06 10:38 AM
- REI outlet - paddlingpika - Dec-02-06 12:18 AM
  - E-bay - pahsimeroi - Dec-04-06 10:34 AM
- as with boats - canoecamp - Dec-04-06 12:47 PM
  - Thanks for all the great replies - gillguy - Dec-05-06 12:44 AM
- We use a footprint under the tent AND - pamskee - Dec-05-06 9:47 AM
- Priorities - old_user - Dec-05-06 12:50 PM
  - Sierra Designs - old_user - Dec-05-06 1:31 PM
- LL Bean #2 Dome/ SD Sirus - briansnat - Dec-06-06 11:38 AM
  - Kelty Gunnison II - old_user - Dec-06-06 6:55 PM
    - I agree with - old_user - Dec-08-06 10:22 AM

Messages in this Topic

  Eureka has a few good choices
  Posted by: Paddlinpals on Nov-30-06 10:27 PM (EST)

for under $150

You can get a Timberline 4 for about that and they have been around forever. Its a solid little tent.

The Apex is a little less if you prefer a dome or the Mountain Pass if you camp in cold weather.

all of them are about 7 X 9 (give or take) are rated for 4 but are perfect for two.

This time of year you can probably pick one of the three up on sale. Sometimes as low as $100.

  Eureka Mountain Pass 2XT
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-03-06 10:25 AM (EST)

I use this for camping solo - plenty of room, great ventilation via big mesh windows. bilateral fly lets you seal up completely or use one or both vestibules half open. 6.2 pounds incl FG shockcords, fits thru an 8" hatch. Use a footprint. Very dry in humidity or heavy rain (Michigan need I say more) Can be found for $150 or less, got mine very lightly used for $70 on eBay.

  Eureka
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-03-06 1:20 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Dec-03-06 1:40 PM EST --

I have a Eureka Apex 3XTA I picked up off of Ebay for $117 a early last year. It's been discontinued, but the new "Pinnacle Pass" is the exact same model, only it's no longer the loud yellow and black color design of older Eureka tents.

I've been through severe thunderstorms in that tent without a single leak. It was left standing while most others nearby had been blown over. Like most tents, it's small for it's rated capacity (3 man), but is spacious for 2. Ventilation is pretty good, but you could still use it as a 3.5 season tent if you have a good sleeping bag. The vestibule space isn't as large as more expensive tents, but it's enough for my uses. I think Eureka tents have a high "bang for the buck" factor and my Apex (Pinnacle Pass) is no exception. Though it's too heavy for serious backpacking,it's fine in a boat.

A word of advise, look for the XTA versions as opposed to regular XTs; they come with aluminum poles that are lighter and stronger than the standard fiberglass. EDITED TO ADD: It looks like some Eureka tents come with aluminum poles without the "A" designation. Either way, seek out aluminum poles if you choose a Eureka tent.

Also, in this price range, a footprint is rarely an incuded accessory. I use a trimmed sheet of 4 or 5 mil (can't remember) plastic sheeting that works great.

Just plug in "Eureka 3xta" (or 2xta) into ebay and you find plenty of tents in your price range. There's a "Buy it Now" Pinnacle Pass 3XTA on there for $125. I have no affiliation with the sellers...

Phreon

  Hi gillguy
  Posted by: old_user on Nov-30-06 10:34 PM (EST)

I kayak camp with an Alps Taurus four man tent. I think it is 4'5" high by 8.5 feet by 7.5 feet. I do wish it was a little taller but it bullet proof in the wind with it's multiple guy lines. It has two vestibules. I used to use a two man tent but got tired of the cramped space, inability to change clothes without squirming on the ground and difficulty storing my gear inside the tent. Here in the south we have raccoons that are unstoppable. I like the extra space. My tent still packs small and is relatively light at about nine pounds. I think they quote it a eight and some ounces but you get the idea. I think I got it on sale for about $120 at REI. It's well built and easy to put up using it's two aluminum poles.
Good luck finding a tent. I am sure others will offer very good insights.
Franklin

  Scan through here
  Posted by: trmoraine on Nov-30-06 10:39 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Nov-30-06 10:46 PM EST --

and you will find some inexpensive tents that will meet your requirements.

http://tinyurl.com/ygsbe2

  maybe not in your price range
  Posted by: medicineman on Nov-30-06 11:23 PM (EST)

but this tent is truly incredible, and that comes from someone (me) that spends most of my backcountry time in a hammmock:

http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbow.html

2 man, free standing and LESS than 2.5 pounds. There are so many configurations available with the vestibule you realy have several tents in one. Rare in a tent of this weight is dual doors and duel vestibules...in the backpacking world the Double Rainbow is already getting one positive review after another.

If you need 4 season (can handle major snow loads) and bombproofness up to gale force winds then consider this tent:

http://www.hilleberg.com/Catalog/akto_339322.htm

The Akto is made of a proprietary material that is stronger than most materials in the tent market thus it will last a lifetime. Two people (if 'close') can sleep in the Akto and the vestibule is large enough for a backpack and room to cook. I've seen the Akto take on wind that has flattened other designs. The only negative of the Akto is that the guylines do take up some real estate if all are deployed.

  tents
  Posted by: old_user on Nov-30-06 11:43 PM (EST)

I've used the Kelty, Alps, and Eureka mentioned in the above posts. All are good. Alps has their own website and sales. Campmor is a good place to buy as well as Outdoor Outlet. An REI tent on sale would also be a good deal.

  tents
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 2:11 AM (EST)

This is what i'd get if i wanted a half decent but cheap 2 person tent. http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39252153&memberId=12500226
Campmor also has the Columbia Lost Lake on sale. Something to keep in mind about Columbia tents is that they're WAY heavier than advertised, i took a tested and accurate fish scale and the Lost Lake was something like 1.5-2 lbs heavier than advertised. so was their some other non freestanding model. Lost Lake-looks like a nice roomy but heavy tent.
Guardian looks decent, but the fly waterproofness is on the low side at 1200mm(usually they're 1500-2000) big ass vestibule would be nice.
There's the Timberline 2 for 100$, tried,tested, and also 1200mm waterproofness and still heavy.

Hey if you don't need a free standing tent, Have a look at the Eureka Spitfire Duo. I ALMOST got one of those myself as a roomier replacement for my Sierra designs Clip Flashlight(a bit squishy for 2). Spitfire 2 is roomy,lightweight,fast/easy to set up,quality poles, convenient side doors. seemed very well made when i looked at it in my local store. pretty common on Ebay for under 130$.

  Eureka and REI
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 2:39 AM (EST)

New this year, we have a REI half-dome for bike touring. Strangely enough all our camping this year was in sunny weather, so I don't yet know how it will do in bad weather, but I hear they're not too bad. It was around $100.

I love our old Eureka. We've used it for years in wind, rain, thunder storms ( all of the above is more typical of our camping trips!) Always stayed dry - even with puddles under it.

  One night in a wet tent
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 7:59 AM (EST)

Just one night in a wet tent will convince all but the most frugal tightwad of the importance of a decently constructed tent. The really cheap and sleazy rigs are prone to let you down at the least opportune moments. I�ve seen fiberglass poles shatter the first time out and zippers that didn�t work after one outing. Don�t settle for anything less than aluminum poles � ever. When it comes to tents a hundred bucks will only buy you trouble. In the $100-150 range you can get into a lower end Eureka on sale. At least with that brand you can count on basic quality of construction and replacement parts (poles) will be available (if needed) later on. While you�re buying your tent go ahead and buy a bottle or two of seam sealer (and use it immediately) and a piece of heavy gauge plastic film to use as a footprint*.

*Use the footprint UNDER the tent to protect the floor from punctures if you�re a logical person or INSIDE if you�re really, really anal and believe in your heart of hearts that Cliff Jacobson is the font of all camping wisdom. My job as �tent forum instigator� requires that I say these things � ;^) - Randall

  Footprint
  Posted by: Dsorgnzd on Dec-01-06 10:42 AM (EST)

Don't let the "footprint" extend beyond the walls of the tent. If you do, rain running down the walls will be caught by the footprint and will run underneath the floor. If your floor has any pinholes or poorly sealed seams, the water can wick up through it and soak your sleeping bag. (This may not be as much a problem with a good quality tent, but a friend of mine learned this lesson with a "bargain" tent during a canoe fishing trip).

  Rain under the Footprint
  Posted by: mdloon100 on Dec-01-06 1:22 PM (EST)

You are right about that, if any water runs down between the tent floor and the floor protecter (footprint) it will seep through the floor materal and get into the bedding, spoiling the happy home. The best footprint I have used was made from an old waterbed mattress and cut so it's an inch or two smaller than the tent floor with an extra bit hanging out under the vestibules to form a porch for boots and such just outside the tent doors.

  oh no
  Posted by: fadedred on Dec-01-06 11:29 AM (EST)

Cliff.....he must track a lot of sand it....not wipe his feet, in order to make it necessary to line a tent floor.....if you don't put the groundcloth down first, you get holes in the tent floor......then you probably always have to line it......how about the idea that if you hide your food in the woods instead of hanging (with a good method) the bears and mice and racoons will never find it.....because they would never think to look for food....in the woods....

oops....got me started

http://www.geocities.com/roym52/bearhang.jpg

best wishes
Roy

  Just to be fair, remember...
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Dec-08-06 1:12 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Dec-08-06 1:14 PM EST --

... that Jacobson stores his food in air-tight containers and stresses they must be clean of all external food residue so the critters can't smell them. Also remember that he spends more time guiding large groups of people in the north woods in a single month than most of the rest of us spend up there in a lifetime, and if he's never seen food lost this way that's worth something. Finally, doesn't everybody know by now that many Boundary Waters bears have learned that when they chew on ropes that point up to a tree, tasty gifts drop from the sky? I've heard of dozens of accounts of people losing their food to bears this way, but haven't heard of anyone losing their food when it was packed in air-tight containers and kept away from camp (admittedly, not as many people store their food that way). Laugh all you want, but all those people who have lost food to bears even though it was properly hung up were not laughing at the time.

As far as the ground-cloth issue, there is *some* justification for putting a ground cloth inside (you are more likely to be dry with this method when there are pinhole leaks in the floor than with the ground cloth below), but when it comes to the issue of long-term wear and tear, I have to say that I've certainly gotten more holes in the tent floor from twigs and stuff poking up from below than the other way around.

  Sorry
  Posted by: fadedred on Dec-08-06 2:54 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Dec-08-06 3:04 PM EST --

I drove trips for two differant wilderness camps BWCA, Porkies, Picture Rocks, Sylvania, Sawtooth Mountains, Namakagan, Brule, Apostle Islands, Isle Royal...etc

this was over a period of about 10 years

I've also lead many as a Scout Leader(Isle Royal, Porkies, Sawtooth Mts, BWCA, Apostles,North Country Trail Sys, Brule, Namakagon, St Croix,

(lead trips for over 20 years)

One camp Hung food ...the other didn't

I saw plenty of dammage using Cliffs method, (and probably newly trained critters)

None with proper hangs

guess your actual milage varried...or the hangs really were done in a poor manner (I've seen many poor hangs in the woods) and Cliffs method was done impeciably and at a time the critters were elsewhere...(things are differant when using Garcia Bear Canister's)

Best Wishes
Roy

  My "mileage" didn't "vary"
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Dec-08-06 5:23 PM (EST)

I honestly had a hard time making sense of all that you wrote (couldn't figure out the relationship between all those years of camping and the "one camp hung food, the other didn't" statement), but of course not that many bears have learned that trick about chewing ropes, and it works fine most of the time.

As for me, I didn't say I've ever had a problem. I made no mention of my experience at all, but when I was up there, I hung my food and all was well. It's just that I've been hearing so many stories recently about "educated" bears, bears which know what happens after chewing on a rope. When you say that "properly" hung food won't be gotten by the bears, do you tie-off the rope way up a tree or something? That's probably what I'd do next time- make the tie-off point very hard to get to. I imagine when a bear chews through a rope, it's a rope which is easy to see and which can be reached from the ground. I also have read that some people have started hanging their food using dark-colored ropes, but with a white rope installed nearby as a "decoy", because white ropes are what the educated bears have been chewing through.

  Animal "reasoning, jackpots and food
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-08-06 10:18 PM (EST)

I've spent a good part of my life training animals of different sorts, right now primarily dogs.

Maybe because of what most people been learned in intro biology classes they tend to think in terms of animals being capable of only simple stimulus/response types of learning.

If you work with them toward any sort of focused goal, you shortly begin to find that they are capable of learning many, many times more, in greater volume and to a higher degree of sublety than you ever initially imagined.

One of the most popular used to teach and reinforce a complex sequence of behaviors is a tool called a "jackpot".

This is basically giving a huge, beyond-belief reward if the dog, for example, successfully executes the desired behavior.

Small rewards reinforce modest progress. However, if the animal (usually at first mostly by chance) hits the nail directly on the head, the trainer opens up a huge stash of highly desirable food supply (or makes available a highly desired but witheld toy) and lets the dog have at it.

For example, a jackpot means the trainer might take off the bait bag that holds bits of chopped up steak, and instead of doling it out piece by piece, opens the bag and gives the entire contents to the dog to wolf down.

You don't do this every training sessions. Just at those times where the dog really gets it right in a spectacular way.

The result is that that incredible, unexpected reward will greatly increase the chance that the dog will try very hard to repeat that behavior...and so starts to imprint it HARD as a learned pattern.

Dogs and other animals will sometimes go to great extents to get jackpots. The effect is multiplied by a "gambling" effect created due to the fact that the payoff doesn't come on a regular schedule.

Animals can become addicted to "gambling" for jackpots just as easy as those lost souls caught up in the thralls of the one armed bandit.

They can learn behaviors that require several stages to get to the payoff.

AND they can make very novel adaptations when situations change or when the puzzle becomes harder.

This to me demonstrates that it is a sort of basic reasoning that begins to take place, rather than just rote learning or response to instinct.

I've seen many instances where an animal will take something they've learned in one context and add it to something they've learned in a separate context to self-create a new behavior to address a novel challenge.

I have absolutely no experience with bears, per se, but because many wild animals tend to be more intelligent than their domestic counterparts (domestic animals tend to have had their wits dulled to make them easier to handle), I can only guess that an animal such as a bear could very well be capable of constructing some fairly innovative and effective solutions to a problem as appetizing a food treasure trove hung from a tree.

It's actually, in fact, a relatively easy problem compared to other food finding challenges a bear might face on a daily basis. After all, food caches and garbage don't fight, don't hide themselves and don't run away.

To a bear's mind, it's probably a very fat, sluggish and energy rich find that is well worth a little investment.

Cheers!

  Double Sorry
  Posted by: fadedred on Dec-09-06 10:37 AM (EST)

I guess I am always sorry when I post something differant the Cliff....seems like he has a following that would die for his ideas

My hang method is very simple...

always have clean hands when you touch the ropes you use for a hang. some of the noted chewing is done by squrrils and mice...because people just finish eating and do a hang. Food smells we cant detect are on the ropes where you tie the rope off.

I hang very high and not where it looks like the normal place people use. Bears tend to find where most people just sling a rope over a branc and pull up the load. I like a hang where the bags are at least 20 feet off the ground and pulled away from the tree so it would hang closer to some other tree than it is tied from. Larger bears don't really like to climb over 10 or 20 feet and usually dont go past the first 2 or 3 branches. I like my rope going over a branch 30 feet up or more if you have a nice hang area. Most people have traditionally hung from these lower branches anyway and it has gotten food in the past. by using the pully method I diagramed, hauling mega weight into a tree is easy and there is no cold pull drag.

I use long ropes and tie as high as I can. some bears are sight hunters and look for a suspended bag, then go to the nearest tree and climb. looking for a rope I also use the multi colored ACC cord in 4 or 5 mm depending on the food load I am carring on any given trip.

All this said....with cliffs method..most otf the problems that I've seen have been from racoons , squrrils and mice......not bears

Bears usually have a route they travel and might only come back thru an area every 3 or 5 days....some odd one will however hang arround at a particullarially good spot for non informed campers......every year there also are more bold bears that will come into camp while you are cooking or eatting and look for their next meal.

In bad areas , such as the Porkies, I usually take the food out for the meal at hand, then hang the rest before cooking....That way if they come for a visit.....the trip doesn't end.....we only loose one meal at most.

Lesser used areas are definately easier to keep your food safe....the animals haven't started to always go there looking for a meal...

I just look at Cliffs method as a old method used for years with mixed success in frequently camped in areas.....way deep in the woods where there is not the concetration of people trained critters it will work....but in areas where the animal population has thrived and there are more animals per square mile than normal....His method fails enough times (in My experiance) I would not like to see people use it and train more annimals to come to camping areas always looking for food.

If you are in tundra ...hanging is not possiable

but when you have trees, I believe it to be the best solution.....It at least limits the critters to only a few that would even try.....mice no longer matter that much and the same with skunks, weasel....etc

Hope this helps clarify

Best Wishes
Roy

  MEC Tarn 2
  Posted by: VK1NF on Dec-01-06 9:44 AM (EST)

Mountain Equipment Co-op has a good tent, the Tarn 2, that's a bit more than your target range. They also have an outdoor gear swap page, where people can post their used equipment for sale. That's where we got our Tarn 2 in perfect shape for $100, and we love it.

  equipment shelter/tent
  Posted by: canoedancing on Dec-01-06 12:05 PM (EST)

here's the one the expedition bikers turned me on to.
http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/velo.asp
Really good quality, loads of storage room in both vestibules, and the footprint goes under the tent and is stacked with the tent corners so it doesn't extend past the tent and funnel water under. Putting a tent footprint inside the tent IMHO only makes sense if you're campging on sand or much, which both get tracked in no matter how careful you are, and it's easier to wash a tent footprint than it is to wash the whole tent. It's way outside your price range, of course. All the good stuff costs more but in the long run is well worth it. As arkay says, having a tent pole break or a zipper stick in the middle of a downpour is just not fun. Worse, is to have a tent zipper stick or come unhinged in the open position when you're trying to escape the avalanche of mosquitos. Then all you can do is dive in your bag and pull it over your head. If you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to take a wilderness adventure trip then it makes sense to spend a couple hundred dollars more and get good gear. I also have the Eureka Timberline and its a fine little tent, but has smaller vestibules and not as roomy inside as the Velo.

BTW, there is a shred of truth in Cliff's advice to store the food bag in the brush away from trails. When I raised free range poultry for a living we discovered that we could put the pens anywhere, for one night, and the wildlife wouldn't attack. Leave it there for two nights and they'd be all over it. Presumably it takes the wildlife a day or say to become accusomte

  Try this site....
  Posted by: tjalmy on Dec-01-06 8:22 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Dec-06-06 9:34 PM EST --

http://www.eurekacampingctr.com/eureka/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_id=3002
The specials and factory seconds are very good.
If you're not in a hurry, the close out and factory seconds change frequently. They seem to be up and running after some very severe flooding in their main outlet last June.
Always owned Eureka, always took advantage of the "seconds". Very seldom found a defect in the tent, outside of a bit of crooked stiching. I think it's five tents in four decades. Heavy use. Two have been large car campers, two have been two man tents, one three man. We still own two of these, one large, and the three. Probably would have owned two less if I didn't loan them out.
And, in response to the inside/outside drop cloth issue, I use the outside drop cloth to keep the bottom of the tent subjected to less moisture, enabling me to break camp with less fuss. I use the inside drop cloth in traffic areas because I like dogs and kids.
T
A

  Found another but,
  Posted by: gillguy on Dec-01-06 9:49 PM (EST)

no specs on it other than WxLxH and weight. Nothing on the coating. Anyone have any info on Wneger Tents?
http://www.campingcomfortably.com/wenger-gstaad-ll-backpacking-tent.html

  sketchy
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-02-06 12:20 AM (EST)

I'd be sketchy about a company that makes 90% car camping tents. At least the higher end Coleman stuff has actually proven to be not bad. For a tall 3 person tent, frame of 2 8.5 mm poles sounds a bit light duty if you had to set up in some strong winds.
Coleman Inyo2 sounds decent, another ripoff of the Clip Flashlight but i don't think as roomy as the Eureka Spitfire 2. The 2 hoop style tents pitch VERY fast and easy as long as you can stake them in.
Tarn 2 would be pretty good though a bit out of your budget. The Coleman Aries 2 should have similar amount of space and pitch quicker but have a much smaller vestibule.
Also if you have an Infinity/Asolo dealer locally,the Raptor 2 is pretty decent( owned one but never got into a serious rain) and roomy tent.sized about halfway between somewhat squishy Tarn 2 and huge Tarn 3.

  I picked up
  Posted by: Paddlinpals on Dec-08-06 10:38 AM (EST)

a Wenger, 4 person dome for my daughter a few years back. The quality was good, but it was one of those 5 pole jobs that you need an engineers degree to assemble the first time. We ended up color coding the poles and the clips so it could be quickly set up. For what they try to charge for them (notice I said try, because I always see them on clearance sites or on Overstock or Amazon at bargain prices). You can do better.

  REI outlet
  Posted by: paddlingpika on Dec-02-06 12:18 AM (EST)

Have you checked rei-outlet.com? I've found some good tent deals there in the past, though I don't have any experience with the models currently listed.

  E-bay
  Posted by: pahsimeroi on Dec-04-06 10:34 AM (EST)

Lots of tents for sale.

  as with boats
  Posted by: canoecamp on Dec-04-06 12:47 PM (EST)

I would rather buy a good, well made used one than a cheap, badly made new one.......
A tent (shelter) is way too important to be a cheapskape. It is your last resort of comfort if you ever get miserable on a trip. A leaking tent that can't stand a little wind or that is difficult to set up could become a real hazard to your health.

  Thanks for all the great replies
  Posted by: gillguy on Dec-05-06 12:44 AM (EST)

  We use a footprint under the tent AND
  Posted by: pamskee on Dec-05-06 9:47 AM (EST)

plastic inside the tent. It's insurance and makes it easier to keep the tent clean. It also acts as a vapor barrier and keeps the tent warmer.

We have a Eureka Apex 3TA and it's storm worthy, but the ventilation is poor. Especially bad in warm/hot weather.

  Priorities
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-05-06 12:50 PM (EST)

I just recently bought a new 3-man Kelty and am very happy with it. It's the first tent I've ever owned that has a "skylight."

Anyway, my biggest shopping criteria were:
1) Buy from reputable store. REI and Campmor have GREAT return policies. Make sure you can send it back if you get it and the front-door zipper doesn't work.
2) Bathtub style floor. It's harder to sweep out, but I made the mistake of buying a tent without this design once and...WHEW!...that was a mistake.
3) THICK floor material. Get the thickest you can (depending on your weight requirements). Adding a pad below it is great, but starting with a thick floor material helps more than a secondary pad.
4) Some type of "porch." There's nothing like slogging your way through the rain and mud, only to get to your tent and try to pull your rain-jacket and boots off while still standing in the rain. I got the Kelty that has the rainfly that extends out over the entrance. It was priceless on it's maiden voyage!! Some tents actually have an extended material "porch" so you're not standing in mud. I couldn't find one of those on sale when I was shopping, so I got an extra little (heavy) tarp to serve the same purpose.
5) Dome tent that doesn't require stakes to be set up. This may not be your priority, but it needs to be considered. Some dome tents still require stakes and I needed something that didn't require that.

Good luck with your search!!

  Sierra Designs
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-05-06 1:31 PM (EST)

I have a Night Watch, by Sierra Designs. (They don't make that one anymore.) They are very well made tents. I also have an inexpensive Spalding 4 man dome. We bought the Sierra Designs for backpacking in the Whites. Reducing the packing size and weight cost you a lot more with good tents, and it really is not as much of an issue with kayaking. If I were buying a tent now, for kayaking, I wouldn't worry nearly so much about weight, and I wouldn't spend nearly so much, (the boat can carry a lot more than I can pack through the mountains.) They're all a heck of a lot better than a canvas shelter half and poncho, (which is what I had gotten used to before I moved here and started hiking again in New England.) It is nice to have room to keep some gear dry, and since you're not carrying it, why not go big?

  LL Bean #2 Dome/ SD Sirus
  Posted by: briansnat on Dec-06-06 11:38 AM (EST)

The LL Bean #2 dome is around $120 and a good, all around tent. Its on the heavy side for backpacking (8lbs), so I usually split the load with my partner and he/she takes the poles.

Its sheds water well and is practically indestructable. The first one I owned I gave to a friend. Its almost 20 years old is still going strong. My current one is 8 years old and as good as new.

Its officially a roomy, 2 person tent, but can fit 3 people in a pinch (but you'd better be good friends). It comes with an optional vestibule that I have, but usually leave home.

For a lighter tent, you might want to consider the Sierra Designs Sirus. Both the 2 and 3 person Sirus can be found for under $150 and both check in around 5 lbs packed. It has a mesh roof so you can sleep under the stars and a fly that can quickly be pulled over the tent should a nightime shower pass through. It offers great ventilation even with the fly attached. The Sirus has doors on both sides so you don't have to climb over your tentmate when entering and exitiing.

Unlike the LL Bean dome, room is very tight in the Sirus, so the 3 person is probably the the better choice even if you are only camping with 2 people.

  Kelty Gunnison II
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-06-06 6:55 PM (EST)

We used a Kelty Gunnison II on the Mississippi River for 73 days last summer. Just a simple 2 pole dome, but it held up fine. Runs about $150.

http://sourcetosea.net

  I agree with
  Posted by: old_user on Dec-08-06 10:22 AM (EST)

Source2sea.. the Kelty Gunnison II, albeita bit heavy (9lbs), is reasonable, well made, and I have used it for two years.

	Eureka has a few good choices Posted by: Paddlinpals on Nov-30-06 10:27 PM (EST)
	for under $150 You can get a Timberline 4 for about that and they have been around forever. Its a solid little tent. The Apex is a little less if you prefer a dome or the Mountain Pass if you camp in cold weather. all of them are about 7 X 9 (give or take) are rated for 4 but are perfect for two. This time of year you can probably pick one of the three up on sale. Sometimes as low as $100.

	Eureka Mountain Pass 2XT Posted by: old_user on Dec-03-06 10:25 AM (EST)
	I use this for camping solo - plenty of room, great ventilation via big mesh windows. bilateral fly lets you seal up completely or use one or both vestibules half open. 6.2 pounds incl FG shockcords, fits thru an 8" hatch. Use a footprint. Very dry in humidity or heavy rain (Michigan need I say more) Can be found for $150 or less, got mine very lightly used for $70 on eBay.

	Eureka Posted by: old_user on Dec-03-06 1:20 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Dec-03-06 1:40 PM EST -- I have a Eureka Apex 3XTA I picked up off of Ebay for $117 a early last year. It's been discontinued, but the new "Pinnacle Pass" is the exact same model, only it's no longer the loud yellow and black color design of older Eureka tents. I've been through severe thunderstorms in that tent without a single leak. It was left standing while most others nearby had been blown over. Like most tents, it's small for it's rated capacity (3 man), but is spacious for 2. Ventilation is pretty good, but you could still use it as a 3.5 season tent if you have a good sleeping bag. The vestibule space isn't as large as more expensive tents, but it's enough for my uses. I think Eureka tents have a high "bang for the buck" factor and my Apex (Pinnacle Pass) is no exception. Though it's too heavy for serious backpacking,it's fine in a boat. A word of advise, look for the XTA versions as opposed to regular XTs; they come with aluminum poles that are lighter and stronger than the standard fiberglass. EDITED TO ADD: It looks like some Eureka tents come with aluminum poles without the "A" designation. Either way, seek out aluminum poles if you choose a Eureka tent. Also, in this price range, a footprint is rarely an incuded accessory. I use a trimmed sheet of 4 or 5 mil (can't remember) plastic sheeting that works great. Just plug in "Eureka 3xta" (or 2xta) into ebay and you find plenty of tents in your price range. There's a "Buy it Now" Pinnacle Pass 3XTA on there for $125. I have no affiliation with the sellers... Phreon

	Hi gillguy Posted by: old_user on Nov-30-06 10:34 PM (EST)
	I kayak camp with an Alps Taurus four man tent. I think it is 4'5" high by 8.5 feet by 7.5 feet. I do wish it was a little taller but it bullet proof in the wind with it's multiple guy lines. It has two vestibules. I used to use a two man tent but got tired of the cramped space, inability to change clothes without squirming on the ground and difficulty storing my gear inside the tent. Here in the south we have raccoons that are unstoppable. I like the extra space. My tent still packs small and is relatively light at about nine pounds. I think they quote it a eight and some ounces but you get the idea. I think I got it on sale for about $120 at REI. It's well built and easy to put up using it's two aluminum poles. Good luck finding a tent. I am sure others will offer very good insights. Franklin

	Scan through here Posted by: trmoraine on Nov-30-06 10:39 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Nov-30-06 10:46 PM EST -- and you will find some inexpensive tents that will meet your requirements. http://tinyurl.com/ygsbe2

	maybe not in your price range Posted by: medicineman on Nov-30-06 11:23 PM (EST)
	but this tent is truly incredible, and that comes from someone (me) that spends most of my backcountry time in a hammmock: http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbow.html 2 man, free standing and LESS than 2.5 pounds. There are so many configurations available with the vestibule you realy have several tents in one. Rare in a tent of this weight is dual doors and duel vestibules...in the backpacking world the Double Rainbow is already getting one positive review after another. If you need 4 season (can handle major snow loads) and bombproofness up to gale force winds then consider this tent: http://www.hilleberg.com/Catalog/akto_339322.htm The Akto is made of a proprietary material that is stronger than most materials in the tent market thus it will last a lifetime. Two people (if 'close') can sleep in the Akto and the vestibule is large enough for a backpack and room to cook. I've seen the Akto take on wind that has flattened other designs. The only negative of the Akto is that the guylines do take up some real estate if all are deployed.

	tents Posted by: old_user on Nov-30-06 11:43 PM (EST)
	I've used the Kelty, Alps, and Eureka mentioned in the above posts. All are good. Alps has their own website and sales. Campmor is a good place to buy as well as Outdoor Outlet. An REI tent on sale would also be a good deal.

	tents Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 2:11 AM (EST)
	This is what i'd get if i wanted a half decent but cheap 2 person tent. http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39252153&memberId=12500226 Campmor also has the Columbia Lost Lake on sale. Something to keep in mind about Columbia tents is that they're WAY heavier than advertised, i took a tested and accurate fish scale and the Lost Lake was something like 1.5-2 lbs heavier than advertised. so was their some other non freestanding model. Lost Lake-looks like a nice roomy but heavy tent. Guardian looks decent, but the fly waterproofness is on the low side at 1200mm(usually they're 1500-2000) big ass vestibule would be nice. There's the Timberline 2 for 100$, tried,tested, and also 1200mm waterproofness and still heavy. Hey if you don't need a free standing tent, Have a look at the Eureka Spitfire Duo. I ALMOST got one of those myself as a roomier replacement for my Sierra designs Clip Flashlight(a bit squishy for 2). Spitfire 2 is roomy,lightweight,fast/easy to set up,quality poles, convenient side doors. seemed very well made when i looked at it in my local store. pretty common on Ebay for under 130$.

	Eureka and REI Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 2:39 AM (EST)
	New this year, we have a REI half-dome for bike touring. Strangely enough all our camping this year was in sunny weather, so I don't yet know how it will do in bad weather, but I hear they're not too bad. It was around $100. I love our old Eureka. We've used it for years in wind, rain, thunder storms ( all of the above is more typical of our camping trips!) Always stayed dry - even with puddles under it.

	One night in a wet tent Posted by: old_user on Dec-01-06 7:59 AM (EST)
	Just one night in a wet tent will convince all but the most frugal tightwad of the importance of a decently constructed tent. The really cheap and sleazy rigs are prone to let you down at the least opportune moments. I�ve seen fiberglass poles shatter the first time out and zippers that didn�t work after one outing. Don�t settle for anything less than aluminum poles � ever. When it comes to tents a hundred bucks will only buy you trouble. In the $100-150 range you can get into a lower end Eureka on sale. At least with that brand you can count on basic quality of construction and replacement parts (poles) will be available (if needed) later on. While you�re buying your tent go ahead and buy a bottle or two of seam sealer (and use it immediately) and a piece of heavy gauge plastic film to use as a footprint. Use the footprint UNDER the tent to protect the floor from punctures if you�re a logical person or INSIDE if you�re really, really anal and believe in your heart of hearts that Cliff Jacobson is the font of all camping wisdom. My job as �tent forum instigator� requires that I say these things � ;^) - Randall

	Footprint Posted by: Dsorgnzd on Dec-01-06 10:42 AM (EST)
	Don't let the "footprint" extend beyond the walls of the tent. If you do, rain running down the walls will be caught by the footprint and will run underneath the floor. If your floor has any pinholes or poorly sealed seams, the water can wick up through it and soak your sleeping bag. (This may not be as much a problem with a good quality tent, but a friend of mine learned this lesson with a "bargain" tent during a canoe fishing trip).

	Rain under the Footprint Posted by: mdloon100 on Dec-01-06 1:22 PM (EST)
	You are right about that, if any water runs down between the tent floor and the floor protecter (footprint) it will seep through the floor materal and get into the bedding, spoiling the happy home. The best footprint I have used was made from an old waterbed mattress and cut so it's an inch or two smaller than the tent floor with an extra bit hanging out under the vestibules to form a porch for boots and such just outside the tent doors.

	oh no Posted by: fadedred on Dec-01-06 11:29 AM (EST)
	Cliff.....he must track a lot of sand it....not wipe his feet, in order to make it necessary to line a tent floor.....if you don't put the groundcloth down first, you get holes in the tent floor......then you probably always have to line it......how about the idea that if you hide your food in the woods instead of hanging (with a good method) the bears and mice and racoons will never find it.....because they would never think to look for food....in the woods.... oops....got me started http://www.geocities.com/roym52/bearhang.jpg best wishes Roy

	Just to be fair, remember... Posted by: guideboatguy on Dec-08-06 1:12 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Dec-08-06 1:14 PM EST -- ... that Jacobson stores his food in air-tight containers and stresses they must be clean of all external food residue so the critters can't smell them. Also remember that he spends more time guiding large groups of people in the north woods in a single month than most of the rest of us spend up there in a lifetime, and if he's never seen food lost this way that's worth something. Finally, doesn't everybody know by now that many Boundary Waters bears have learned that when they chew on ropes that point up to a tree, tasty gifts drop from the sky? I've heard of dozens of accounts of people losing their food to bears this way, but haven't heard of anyone losing their food when it was packed in air-tight containers and kept away from camp (admittedly, not as many people store their food that way). Laugh all you want, but all those people who have lost food to bears even though it was properly hung up were not laughing at the time. As far as the ground-cloth issue, there is some justification for putting a ground cloth inside (you are more likely to be dry with this method when there are pinhole leaks in the floor than with the ground cloth below), but when it comes to the issue of long-term wear and tear, I have to say that I've certainly gotten more holes in the tent floor from twigs and stuff poking up from below than the other way around.

	Sorry Posted by: fadedred on Dec-08-06 2:54 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Dec-08-06 3:04 PM EST -- I drove trips for two differant wilderness camps BWCA, Porkies, Picture Rocks, Sylvania, Sawtooth Mountains, Namakagan, Brule, Apostle Islands, Isle Royal...etc this was over a period of about 10 years I've also lead many as a Scout Leader(Isle Royal, Porkies, Sawtooth Mts, BWCA, Apostles,North Country Trail Sys, Brule, Namakagon, St Croix, (lead trips for over 20 years) One camp Hung food ...the other didn't I saw plenty of dammage using Cliffs method, (and probably newly trained critters) None with proper hangs guess your actual milage varried...or the hangs really were done in a poor manner (I've seen many poor hangs in the woods) and Cliffs method was done impeciably and at a time the critters were elsewhere...(things are differant when using Garcia Bear Canister's) Best Wishes Roy

	My "mileage" didn't "vary" Posted by: guideboatguy on Dec-08-06 5:23 PM (EST)
	I honestly had a hard time making sense of all that you wrote (couldn't figure out the relationship between all those years of camping and the "one camp hung food, the other didn't" statement), but of course not that many bears have learned that trick about chewing ropes, and it works fine most of the time. As for me, I didn't say I've ever had a problem. I made no mention of my experience at all, but when I was up there, I hung my food and all was well. It's just that I've been hearing so many stories recently about "educated" bears, bears which know what happens after chewing on a rope. When you say that "properly" hung food won't be gotten by the bears, do you tie-off the rope way up a tree or something? That's probably what I'd do next time- make the tie-off point very hard to get to. I imagine when a bear chews through a rope, it's a rope which is easy to see and which can be reached from the ground. I also have read that some people have started hanging their food using dark-colored ropes, but with a white rope installed nearby as a "decoy", because white ropes are what the educated bears have been chewing through.

	Animal "reasoning, jackpots and food Posted by: old_user on Dec-08-06 10:18 PM (EST)
	I've spent a good part of my life training animals of different sorts, right now primarily dogs. Maybe because of what most people been learned in intro biology classes they tend to think in terms of animals being capable of only simple stimulus/response types of learning. If you work with them toward any sort of focused goal, you shortly begin to find that they are capable of learning many, many times more, in greater volume and to a higher degree of sublety than you ever initially imagined. One of the most popular used to teach and reinforce a complex sequence of behaviors is a tool called a "jackpot". This is basically giving a huge, beyond-belief reward if the dog, for example, successfully executes the desired behavior. Small rewards reinforce modest progress. However, if the animal (usually at first mostly by chance) hits the nail directly on the head, the trainer opens up a huge stash of highly desirable food supply (or makes available a highly desired but witheld toy) and lets the dog have at it. For example, a jackpot means the trainer might take off the bait bag that holds bits of chopped up steak, and instead of doling it out piece by piece, opens the bag and gives the entire contents to the dog to wolf down. You don't do this every training sessions. Just at those times where the dog really gets it right in a spectacular way. The result is that that incredible, unexpected reward will greatly increase the chance that the dog will try very hard to repeat that behavior...and so starts to imprint it HARD as a learned pattern. Dogs and other animals will sometimes go to great extents to get jackpots. The effect is multiplied by a "gambling" effect created due to the fact that the payoff doesn't come on a regular schedule. Animals can become addicted to "gambling" for jackpots just as easy as those lost souls caught up in the thralls of the one armed bandit. They can learn behaviors that require several stages to get to the payoff. AND they can make very novel adaptations when situations change or when the puzzle becomes harder. This to me demonstrates that it is a sort of basic reasoning that begins to take place, rather than just rote learning or response to instinct. I've seen many instances where an animal will take something they've learned in one context and add it to something they've learned in a separate context to self-create a new behavior to address a novel challenge. I have absolutely no experience with bears, per se, but because many wild animals tend to be more intelligent than their domestic counterparts (domestic animals tend to have had their wits dulled to make them easier to handle), I can only guess that an animal such as a bear could very well be capable of constructing some fairly innovative and effective solutions to a problem as appetizing a food treasure trove hung from a tree. It's actually, in fact, a relatively easy problem compared to other food finding challenges a bear might face on a daily basis. After all, food caches and garbage don't fight, don't hide themselves and don't run away. To a bear's mind, it's probably a very fat, sluggish and energy rich find that is well worth a little investment. Cheers!

	Double Sorry Posted by: fadedred on Dec-09-06 10:37 AM (EST)
	I guess I am always sorry when I post something differant the Cliff....seems like he has a following that would die for his ideas My hang method is very simple... always have clean hands when you touch the ropes you use for a hang. some of the noted chewing is done by squrrils and mice...because people just finish eating and do a hang. Food smells we cant detect are on the ropes where you tie the rope off. I hang very high and not where it looks like the normal place people use. Bears tend to find where most people just sling a rope over a branc and pull up the load. I like a hang where the bags are at least 20 feet off the ground and pulled away from the tree so it would hang closer to some other tree than it is tied from. Larger bears don't really like to climb over 10 or 20 feet and usually dont go past the first 2 or 3 branches. I like my rope going over a branch 30 feet up or more if you have a nice hang area. Most people have traditionally hung from these lower branches anyway and it has gotten food in the past. by using the pully method I diagramed, hauling mega weight into a tree is easy and there is no cold pull drag. I use long ropes and tie as high as I can. some bears are sight hunters and look for a suspended bag, then go to the nearest tree and climb. looking for a rope I also use the multi colored ACC cord in 4 or 5 mm depending on the food load I am carring on any given trip. All this said....with cliffs method..most otf the problems that I've seen have been from racoons , squrrils and mice......not bears Bears usually have a route they travel and might only come back thru an area every 3 or 5 days....some odd one will however hang arround at a particullarially good spot for non informed campers......every year there also are more bold bears that will come into camp while you are cooking or eatting and look for their next meal. In bad areas , such as the Porkies, I usually take the food out for the meal at hand, then hang the rest before cooking....That way if they come for a visit.....the trip doesn't end.....we only loose one meal at most. Lesser used areas are definately easier to keep your food safe....the animals haven't started to always go there looking for a meal... I just look at Cliffs method as a old method used for years with mixed success in frequently camped in areas.....way deep in the woods where there is not the concetration of people trained critters it will work....but in areas where the animal population has thrived and there are more animals per square mile than normal....His method fails enough times (in My experiance) I would not like to see people use it and train more annimals to come to camping areas always looking for food. If you are in tundra ...hanging is not possiable but when you have trees, I believe it to be the best solution.....It at least limits the critters to only a few that would even try.....mice no longer matter that much and the same with skunks, weasel....etc Hope this helps clarify Best Wishes Roy

	MEC Tarn 2 Posted by: VK1NF on Dec-01-06 9:44 AM (EST)
	Mountain Equipment Co-op has a good tent, the Tarn 2, that's a bit more than your target range. They also have an outdoor gear swap page, where people can post their used equipment for sale. That's where we got our Tarn 2 in perfect shape for $100, and we love it.

	equipment shelter/tent Posted by: canoedancing on Dec-01-06 12:05 PM (EST)
	here's the one the expedition bikers turned me on to. http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/velo.asp Really good quality, loads of storage room in both vestibules, and the footprint goes under the tent and is stacked with the tent corners so it doesn't extend past the tent and funnel water under. Putting a tent footprint inside the tent IMHO only makes sense if you're campging on sand or much, which both get tracked in no matter how careful you are, and it's easier to wash a tent footprint than it is to wash the whole tent. It's way outside your price range, of course. All the good stuff costs more but in the long run is well worth it. As arkay says, having a tent pole break or a zipper stick in the middle of a downpour is just not fun. Worse, is to have a tent zipper stick or come unhinged in the open position when you're trying to escape the avalanche of mosquitos. Then all you can do is dive in your bag and pull it over your head. If you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to take a wilderness adventure trip then it makes sense to spend a couple hundred dollars more and get good gear. I also have the Eureka Timberline and its a fine little tent, but has smaller vestibules and not as roomy inside as the Velo. BTW, there is a shred of truth in Cliff's advice to store the food bag in the brush away from trails. When I raised free range poultry for a living we discovered that we could put the pens anywhere, for one night, and the wildlife wouldn't attack. Leave it there for two nights and they'd be all over it. Presumably it takes the wildlife a day or say to become accusomte

	Try this site.... Posted by: tjalmy on Dec-01-06 8:22 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Dec-06-06 9:34 PM EST -- http://www.eurekacampingctr.com/eureka/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_id=3002 The specials and factory seconds are very good. If you're not in a hurry, the close out and factory seconds change frequently. They seem to be up and running after some very severe flooding in their main outlet last June. Always owned Eureka, always took advantage of the "seconds". Very seldom found a defect in the tent, outside of a bit of crooked stiching. I think it's five tents in four decades. Heavy use. Two have been large car campers, two have been two man tents, one three man. We still own two of these, one large, and the three. Probably would have owned two less if I didn't loan them out. And, in response to the inside/outside drop cloth issue, I use the outside drop cloth to keep the bottom of the tent subjected to less moisture, enabling me to break camp with less fuss. I use the inside drop cloth in traffic areas because I like dogs and kids. T A

	Found another but, Posted by: gillguy on Dec-01-06 9:49 PM (EST)
	no specs on it other than WxLxH and weight. Nothing on the coating. Anyone have any info on Wneger Tents? http://www.campingcomfortably.com/wenger-gstaad-ll-backpacking-tent.html

	sketchy Posted by: old_user on Dec-02-06 12:20 AM (EST)
	I'd be sketchy about a company that makes 90% car camping tents. At least the higher end Coleman stuff has actually proven to be not bad. For a tall 3 person tent, frame of 2 8.5 mm poles sounds a bit light duty if you had to set up in some strong winds. Coleman Inyo2 sounds decent, another ripoff of the Clip Flashlight but i don't think as roomy as the Eureka Spitfire 2. The 2 hoop style tents pitch VERY fast and easy as long as you can stake them in. Tarn 2 would be pretty good though a bit out of your budget. The Coleman Aries 2 should have similar amount of space and pitch quicker but have a much smaller vestibule. Also if you have an Infinity/Asolo dealer locally,the Raptor 2 is pretty decent( owned one but never got into a serious rain) and roomy tent.sized about halfway between somewhat squishy Tarn 2 and huge Tarn 3.

	I picked up Posted by: Paddlinpals on Dec-08-06 10:38 AM (EST)
	a Wenger, 4 person dome for my daughter a few years back. The quality was good, but it was one of those 5 pole jobs that you need an engineers degree to assemble the first time. We ended up color coding the poles and the clips so it could be quickly set up. For what they try to charge for them (notice I said try, because I always see them on clearance sites or on Overstock or Amazon at bargain prices). You can do better.

	REI outlet Posted by: paddlingpika on Dec-02-06 12:18 AM (EST)
	Have you checked rei-outlet.com? I've found some good tent deals there in the past, though I don't have any experience with the models currently listed.

	E-bay Posted by: pahsimeroi on Dec-04-06 10:34 AM (EST)
	Lots of tents for sale.

	as with boats Posted by: canoecamp on Dec-04-06 12:47 PM (EST)
	I would rather buy a good, well made used one than a cheap, badly made new one....... A tent (shelter) is way too important to be a cheapskape. It is your last resort of comfort if you ever get miserable on a trip. A leaking tent that can't stand a little wind or that is difficult to set up could become a real hazard to your health.

	Thanks for all the great replies Posted by: gillguy on Dec-05-06 12:44 AM (EST)

	We use a footprint under the tent AND Posted by: pamskee on Dec-05-06 9:47 AM (EST)
	plastic inside the tent. It's insurance and makes it easier to keep the tent clean. It also acts as a vapor barrier and keeps the tent warmer. We have a Eureka Apex 3TA and it's storm worthy, but the ventilation is poor. Especially bad in warm/hot weather.

	Priorities Posted by: old_user on Dec-05-06 12:50 PM (EST)
	I just recently bought a new 3-man Kelty and am very happy with it. It's the first tent I've ever owned that has a "skylight." Anyway, my biggest shopping criteria were: 1) Buy from reputable store. REI and Campmor have GREAT return policies. Make sure you can send it back if you get it and the front-door zipper doesn't work. 2) Bathtub style floor. It's harder to sweep out, but I made the mistake of buying a tent without this design once and...WHEW!...that was a mistake. 3) THICK floor material. Get the thickest you can (depending on your weight requirements). Adding a pad below it is great, but starting with a thick floor material helps more than a secondary pad. 4) Some type of "porch." There's nothing like slogging your way through the rain and mud, only to get to your tent and try to pull your rain-jacket and boots off while still standing in the rain. I got the Kelty that has the rainfly that extends out over the entrance. It was priceless on it's maiden voyage!! Some tents actually have an extended material "porch" so you're not standing in mud. I couldn't find one of those on sale when I was shopping, so I got an extra little (heavy) tarp to serve the same purpose. 5) Dome tent that doesn't require stakes to be set up. This may not be your priority, but it needs to be considered. Some dome tents still require stakes and I needed something that didn't require that. Good luck with your search!!