What the heck is it? Polyester fabric instead of glass, yeah?
When is it used?
Where is it used?
Touring Kayak Paddles
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Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 5:06 PM (EST)
Posted by: old_user on Mar-31-06 5:18 PM (EST)
Diolen will get fuzzy like kevlar if sanded or abraded.
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 5:53 PM (EST)
Seems to be used.......|
Posted by: chodups on Mar-31-06 5:19 PM (EST)
in some Brit boats. P&H and others? Maybe just used in some components but not others?
it's a kit bag|
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 6:11 PM (EST)
between all the different fabrics,weaves, core materials,construction methods and hull shapes I think a person could make a durable and quality kayak without resorting to fancy dancy expensive materials as long as super light weight wasn't a high priority.
Diolen is a trade name|
Posted by: old_user on Mar-31-06 8:26 PM (EST)
Headquarters in the Netherlands
is there a price / yd?|
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 8:38 PM (EST)
I'm sure Kevlar is much more costly|
Posted by: old_user on Mar-31-06 10:59 PM (EST)
that's a given, but people seem to forget or just don't understand that there are many proprietary layups that are much stiffer, less costly and much more durable than Kevlar or Carbon. Yes they weigh more. Every maker or designer has their own reason for useing the layups and fabric that they use. The truth is in the paddling. Don't forget that the first and probably still the best sea kayaks were skin on frame and super flexable and I believe far more sea worthy than any stiff kayak out there. They were not sport boats, they were used to make a living. I'm sure members of Qajaq would agree.
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 11:16 PM (EST)
my point was that diolene/polyester is a useful material that doesn't fracture when flexed like glass can. It's cheaper than kevlar which is more effective in resisting fracture,,therefore a frugal builder looking for a durable laminate might use diolene/polyester instead of s-glass or kevlar.
True I suppose|
Posted by: old_user on Mar-31-06 11:36 PM (EST)
But I'm not so sure it's not a local thing and or what's on hand. Kevlar prices have gone up dramatically and I'm sure shipping overseas is and has been a consideration in just what gets used and where. I've looked at all these boats and truthfully I don't see U.S. boats being made to any higher standards than the Euro boats. Older boats seem to always looks better to me.
Which Brit's are you referring to?|
Posted by: bnystrom on Apr-01-06 9:14 AM (EST)
"it makes the super strong bombproof flexable hulls the Britts are famous for"
Posted by: c2g on Mar-31-06 8:42 PM (EST)
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 9:20 PM (EST)
7yrs ago I made that Chesapeake 16 with 4oz s-glass and 5oz polyester cloth over that,,holy crap that was a mistake as it soaked up a LOT of epoxy. There must be different weaves of polyester that soak up resin differently
Posted by: c2g on Mar-31-06 10:25 PM (EST)
I don't remember much about how much epoxy the cloth soaked up. I do remember that the polyester seemed kind of thick compared to a comparable weight fiberglass. I tried running it about halfway up the sides, maybe a little more, then trimming it the same way you do with fiberglass. I don't know if my technique was just particularly bad that day, or if I got to it after the epoxy had cured a bit too long, or if polyester is just tougher to work with, but the results were somewhat less than stellar.
more diolen info|
Posted by: c2g on Mar-31-06 9:04 PM (EST)
A quick Google search turned up a little more info:
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 9:15 PM (EST)
the first link is a trip. Unless it's some super duper fancy polyester my guess is that it costs the same or a smidge less than fiberglass as Sweets site indicates.
IMHIP diolene flexes too much|
Posted by: peter_k on Mar-31-06 9:31 PM (EST)
when you mate a stiff part (coaming) to a diolene deck you can get stress risers and spider cracking (or worse)without good design (is P&H listening?)
You have it backwards|
Posted by: old_user on Mar-31-06 10:24 PM (EST)
the decks are glass, the hull is mixed. thus the super strong hull with a lighter deck. http://www.onkayaks.squarespace.com/ph-orion/
I owned a quest carbon kevlar|
Posted by: peter_k on Mar-31-06 10:55 PM (EST)
hull diolene deck. maybe P&h cleaned it up Nobody wanted to deal with my problems.
it's only a material|
Posted by: LeeG on Mar-31-06 11:05 PM (EST)
no one is saying it's not a worthwhile material. It is. But so are knit cloths, specific applications of unidirectional materials,core materials etc. Have you seen the Necky composites? Cool stuff. When I picked up glass QCC400 without a rudder if felt as light as most kevlar kayaks. My old Express has got regular heavy roving,,works fine, beat to hell and full of cracks.
I've never looked that close at P&H.|
Posted by: chodups on Mar-31-06 10:35 PM (EST)
Are cracks radiating from the cockpit rim a characteristic of P&H boats?
changes over time|
Posted by: LeeG on Apr-01-06 9:25 AM (EST)
I have no idea,,I saw/paddled one P&H Sirius 5yrs ago that did not impress me with it's construction, the deck was made with glass mat and the internal footbrace mounts were too close together for the Keepers causing them to bow in,not that it wasn't ok,,just that it looked crude. Saw a different P&H last year that looked much more refined.