Does anyone have any thoughts on the Dagger/Mad River Refection 15 Royalex vs the Wenonah Saranack 15 Royalex vs. Old Town Discover 158 (maybe royalex).
We are looking for a good canoe for day paddling tandem for the lakes and river - up to class 1. My wife and I are probably less than 400lb together with beer or 450lb with beer and the dog. We are just novice out for relaxation paddlers. Just want a nice little canoe that I can solo if I want to too. May want to try a solo overnight camping trip with it. Guess I am kind of looking for a "volvo" of canoes.
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Posted by: mtnislandbooy on Mar-26-14 9:56 AM (EST)
I just purchased a used OT Appalachian, 16', Royalex. I love it so far. I've only taken it on flat water so far (where it is not supposed to be all that great, has a high rocker for OT) and it did great for me and my girlfriend, with cooler and gear...its made for a heavy load. I usually paddle overnight trips with friends who mostly have OT discoverys, 3 layer poly. We mostly go down I&II rivers with substantial flat water in between. They are heavy, but once you get them in the water, rides like a buick. I think it's a great all around canoe. Do they make them in Royalex,,,the disco that is?
Dagger/Mad River Reflection|
Posted by: wildernesswebb on Mar-26-14 10:25 AM (EST)
Everyone I've known who has had a Reflection has enjoyed the little boat. I used it exclusively as a solo, but have a friend who used his tandem with his daughter. It is steady while still being easy to paddle. Many boats that feel comfortably stable are a "Dog" to try to paddle, the little Reflection isn't.
Posted by: Boyscout on Mar-27-14 9:32 AM (EST)
Terry is right about the Reflection.he usually gets the Reflection when we do get to paddle together. If it tandoms like it does solo you would be very happy.
Iceout must of happened|
Posted by: bzeka on Mar-26-14 10:35 AM (EST)
Yes on Relection but|
Posted by: yatipope on Mar-26-14 12:18 PM (EST)
The 16ft Reflection would be an awesome boat for your purpose. I have owned and paddled all 3 of those boats and I also would choose the Reflection hands down. I know they haven't made the Reflection 16 in along time and I really regret selling mine. The 15 will be very good.
Posted by: deuce on Mar-26-14 1:16 PM (EST)
As everyone else has said a Reflection would be a great choice. You didn't ask (not that that matters around here LOL), but an alternative that may be easier to find and would work very well for you I think would be a sixteen foot Explorer. Room for the tandem crew plus dog but can also be soloed fairly well and can hold way more gear than one has any business taking on a multi-day. Should also be easier to find used.
Never paddled the Saranac|
Posted by: pblanc on Mar-26-14 1:13 PM (EST)
I doubt if I have ever even seen one.
Posted by: osprey on Mar-26-14 4:06 PM (EST)
The Reflection 15 is a very sweet small tandem that can be soloed pretty well. It is much lighter and will be more nimble that the 3 layer poly boats that are wider and flatter. I think the reflection 15 would work for you, but as others have suggested, you might be pushing its comfortable capacity limit. Especially as novices, and with a dog, and with beer, you guys may prefer a 16' tandem.
i have a reflection 15|
Posted by: daggermat on Mar-27-14 9:16 AM (EST)
And have had it for 15 years. Started life as a lake tandem for my 5 year old son and I. We moved on to running cl. 2 ww in it at about 300-350 pounds combined. Started getting wet in 2+ so I bought a dumoine. One day doing flat water my son wanted to solo the reflection...it became his solo canoe for a year until we got dedicated solos. Later on with 13 boats in the yard it became his poling boat. Now he's out and after all my squirt, slalom, c, oc boats this is my go to boat for long days on the river up to cl. 2 , paddle/pole combos..as well as my occasional flat water days. Bit of a pig, lousy secondary stability, hates holes but lives to surf. Got that center seat and she's comfortable. Mellow water tandem at 400 pounds should be okay, but you're at the limit IMO. Leave the dog and beer home.
Too short. Look for a 16. |
Posted by: ezwater on Mar-27-14 4:33 PM (EST)
Posted by: Boyscout on Mar-28-14 4:29 AM (EST)
I think I heard Terry say something about Mad river buying the refection mold. can't remember what name they called there version. I figure it would be like the difference between the guide and freedom solo.both good canoes. But one is a bit better than the other.
They called it the Reflection|
Posted by: pblanc on Mar-28-14 7:46 AM (EST)
Apparently they still have one or two left as it has not yet been removed from their on-line catalog like the Royalex Outrage, Outrage X, and Freedom Solo have.
Posted by: deuce on Mar-28-14 9:09 AM (EST)
My buddy bought a brand spanking new one a year and a half ago. Sweet boat. His primary reason for buying it was solo float camping on class I-IIish rivers.
"hates holes but lives to surf"|
Posted by: wildernesswebb on Mar-28-14 10:20 AM (EST)
I concur with that. Only time I swam out of that boat was at the Ozark Rendezvous last Spring. Instead of taking the "Safe" route, I wanted to take one with a better "Sitting" eddy for picture taking. In the high water, there was a hole in the line I took. The bow just stopped, wallowed, and I was swimming before I could have uttered the word "Hole."
I have dibs on next Relection 16|
Posted by: yatipope on Mar-28-14 5:26 PM (EST)
The next Reflection 16 I find for sale IS MINE. I still think its a wonderful canoe and sure regret selling it. Just dont paddle it backwards. The hull is very ASYMETRICAL.
Not "very" asymmetrical. My MR Synergy |
Posted by: ezwater on Mar-29-14 1:36 AM (EST)
and my Millbrook Edsel are VERY asymmetrical. I have paddled them backwards, and while they paddle differently, they aren't any special trouble at all.
G2D: San Juan River|
Posted by: vic on Mar-29-14 2:00 AM (EST)
In October of 2010 we did the San Juan from Bluff to Clay Hills Crossing. Our outfitter was Red River Canoe Company (now renamed Moab Rafting and Canoe Company) owned by Theresa Butler. I highly recommend them to anyone interested in a guided trip on the Green or San Juan Rivers.
What cfs did you have? We had |
Posted by: ezwater on Mar-29-14 2:37 PM (EST)
1800 which was not a very "wet" level. I ran Government dry with no trouble in a ww boat, and everyone else got through upright, though one boat relaxed to soon when they hit the leftside eddy line below the rapid.
On our October 2010 trip|
Posted by: vic on Mar-29-14 5:58 PM (EST)
On our October 10,2010 trip it was about 900 cfs at put in and went down to about 750 cfs by the time we took out on October 16,2010. The guides said the rapids would have been easier at a higher cfs because the low water forced us into the larger wave trains. The other routes through the rapids were too shallow for us to run.