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  Tahe TCI-Lite layup?
  Posted by: BigandSmall on Jan-29-14 3:32 PM (EST)
   Category: Kayaks 

Can anyone give me a decent explanation of this layup? I don't know anything about composites and the description on Tahe's website isn't overly clear. I was under the assumption carbon made kayaks stiffer but more brittle? How would this hybrid compare strength wise to a conventional fiberglass layup?

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Messages in this Topic

 

  Without a link, I'm too lazy to go and
  Posted by: ezwater on Jan-30-14 1:23 AM (EST)
read their description of the layup.

How well a composite layup performs depends on both the hull geometry and how the cloths are chosen to maintain that geometry, and to withstand abuse that threatens to break the boat.

There are many good layups, but the best for general whitewater is glass outside, Kevlar inside. Carbon can be used outside, where it saves weight and is stiffer than glass, but carbon does not resist abrasion as well as glass. With gelcoated sea kayaks, carbon is somewhat protected from abrasion, but some of the weight savings of carbon is lost with gelcoating.

Manufacturers sometimes break the "rules" with peculiar layups. I have a slalom c-1 that is S-glass outside, carbon inside. It has outstanding stiffness, important for the Olympic competitor who sold it to me, but it is not capable of withstanding an extreme crushing blow as would the same hull made with S-glass outside and Kevlar inside.
 
 
  Sorry about that
  Posted by: BigandSmall on Jan-30-14 10:13 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-30-14 10:58 AM EST --

Thanks for the response g2d.

This is Tahe's description from here : http://www.tahemarine.com/information/technology/

TCI-lite – do not confuse this with vacuum bagging! Vacuum infusing is one of the most advanced construction methods used in the composite industry. This production method ensures the best strength/weight ratio possible. Tahe Kayaks as a company launched this production method very successfully in the year of 2005. We have been building our Tahe Marine carbon range ever since. Here we are combining the high-performance properties of marine grade epoxy resin with several types of carbon fibre, carbon/aramide and glass fabrics to create very high-end products with smooth and clear carbon look.

 
 
  not so light as claimed
  Posted by: gnarlydog on Jan-30-14 10:48 PM (EST)
---TCI-lite – do not confuse this with vacuum bagging! Vacuum infusing is one of the most advanced construction methods used in the composite industry. This production method ensures the best strength/weight ratio possible.---

I have a Tahe (Zegul) with infusion lay-up. It is not so light and certainly not the state of the art that they like to claim. I have other infusion lay-up kayaks that are lighter (but maybe not as strong).
Tahe's lay-up in my hybrid composite (carbon/Kevlar)is a bit messy and there a lot of excess resin there. Maybe the vacuum was a bit too low?
I have not cracked either but then again I have not had the opportunity to test them in extreme conditions of rocks landings and dropping on concrete curbs :-)
 
 
  Last summer I purchased a used 2012
  Posted by: dong on Jan-30-14 8:19 PM (EST)
Tahe Greenland T with the TCI lite layup. It's a very light, 41 lbs. and very stiff layup. It's great for most of the paddling I do now but I'm not sure how it would compare to a heavier, thicker fiberglass hull with bouncing off rocks. The kayak I have has carbon fiber for the exterior and Kevlar on the interior. It's a very strong and stiff kayak for its weight that will suite my purpose. The only downside is that the carbon fiber/epoxy isn't coated with a varnish or gel coat for protection from UV rays or moisture and requires special attention and care. You don't want this kayak to be stored outside and in the sun and you don't want it to be wrapped in plastic, have the plastic get ripped, and have rain water laying between the plastic and the hull in the hot summer sun for a couple months. This is what happened to the kayak I bought because the transporter didn't have any idea that an epoxy composite is only water resistant and not water proof. When I recieved the kayak, the hull was covered in white chaulk and needed a lot of rubbing out work done to it to remove the water damage. If you are able to take the extra care this kayak requires to keep it looking nice then it's well worth it it have a light strong kayak. Sorry for going in to such depth with the problems I had but I just wanted to make you aware of the extra care that a epoxy composite kayak requires. My kayak stays in a garage out of the sun and is doing just fine. Im curious which kayak model your looking at. I have paddled and built many kayaks and am still amazed at the handling characteristics of the Greenland T. Any competent paddlers owes it to themselves to take this kayak for a paddle. You'll be amazed.
 
 
  Good info to have
  Posted by: BigandSmall on Jan-30-14 11:15 PM (EST)
Thanks Dong. Looking at the new Reval HV. I'm hoping it fits between the Tempest 170 and 180, we'll see.
 
 
  Water or moisture should not make
  Posted by: ezwater on Jan-31-14 2:54 PM (EST)
epoxy or vinylester acquire a haze or "chalk". I have two epoxy boats and three vinylester boats, none of them varnished or gelcoated, and they have not shown any visible effects of water, moisture, or UV exposure. I do store them in a shaded carport, but otherwise they are exposed to the elements.

So I can't explain your experience. Maybe if CE Wilson comes by, he will know.
 
 
  nonsense
  Posted by: RubricOfRuin on Feb-04-14 7:02 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-04-14 7:08 AM EST --

Compared to everything else used in kayak construction epoxy resin is the most chemically stable stuff there is. It resists not only water - to which it is totally impermeable, but also acids, bases and UV – to a considerably greater extent than vinyl resin. If you really want to know, it is to do with chemical structure of epoxy resins, as they are cross-linked to a high degree and do not contain more reactive chemical groups like ester groups found in vinyl resins.

I own a "3rd owner" Tiderace boat in epoxy/vacuum layup (carbon/kevlar). It's old, but totally bomb-proof.

As far as Tahe/Zegul build quality is concerned - I have to say it's mediocre at best, if compared to high-end boats made by Tiderace, Rockpool, Skim, Arrow or VKV. Being from Estonia and living now in Sweden I've seen plenty of Tahe boats btw. Greenland T is a nice boat indeed, but there are a lot of boats taht would compare very favorably to it. Arrow Ivalu or any of the Björn Thomasson'sa Greenland boats (SeaBird Designs) to name a few.

 
 
  Greenland T now under Rebel
  Posted by: gnarlydog on Feb-04-14 8:33 PM (EST)
the original design by Johan Wirsen is now under his own label of Rebel Kayaks. While some of the Tahe Greenland and Greenland T were fragile and prone to failure behind the cockpit (because of manufacture shortcuts, not design) the Rebel ones are now made with cork core, super stiff and incredibly light. Production ones have just been released at Goteborg boat show over the week end.
 

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