An obituary of Allen Rosenberg, Olympic Rowing Coach appears in todays NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/14/sports/olympics/allen-rosenberg-olympic-rowing-coach-who-transformed-the-sport-dies-at-82.html?_r=0)
Here is a quote that I think is quite relevant to kayak paddle stroke technique:
He took what was often a frenetic and power-washing way putting the oar in the water and whaling away at it to something more relaxed. His constant comments were about lightness of hands and relaxing and balancing in the recovery part of the stroke. Concentrate on a long pull in the water, quiet and even. The less water you disturb, the faster the boat goes.
Probably the long pull part does not apply to a wing paddle. On the other hand, the GP is perfect for the long, even and quiet stroke.
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When I was sculling in Philadelphia in |
Posted by: g2d on Dec-14-13 1:10 PM (EST)
'65, Al Rosenberg watched me from a distance, and when I got to the dock, he called me over and in maybe two minutes of quiet talk, gave me more and better coaching than I had ever had previously as an oarsman. And I wasn't one of his '64 crew that had stomped opponents at the Japan Olympics. I was just a guy taking up locker space at Vesper Boat Club.
Posted by: gjf12 on Dec-14-13 1:56 PM (EST)
The commonality with the gp seems to me that it can be made to disturb the water hardly at all. And that it is very easy to see and hear when the technique is slightly off and one is disturbing the water. The main point of the quote that struck me was the efficiency benefit, with any paddle, of no splash, either on entry or exit, and even no ventilation during the stroke. Easier to achieve and observe with a gp, I think.
I think you should watch some top-notch |
Posted by: g2d on Dec-14-13 2:56 PM (EST)
rowing crews, and see if Rosenberg or any other coach expects "undisturbed" water. The times statement about long strokes is incorrect, also. In the 60s, strokes were shortened, and stroke rates were increased, by all crews, and it hasn't changed since.
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Dec-14-13 3:46 PM (EST)
Many GP paddlers |
Posted by: rpg51 on Dec-14-13 5:58 PM (EST)
develop a forward stroke similar to the stroke used by wing paddle users. There is actually quite a bit of rotation and/or a crunch type deal going on with some of the good GP paddlers.
Posted by: carldelo on Dec-15-13 10:22 AM (EST)
Just a couple of remarks further to GBG's post.
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Dec-15-13 10:50 AM (EST)
Posted by: carldelo on Dec-15-13 11:55 AM (EST)
Posted by: gjf12 on Dec-15-13 1:46 PM (EST)
g2d said: 'I'll tell you what Rosenberg wanted. He wanted that oar blade dropped neatly into the water, without backsplash toward the bow, and without fore-splash ripping water off the surface toward the stern." .."no scraping or sloshing the water surface."
I think that for pacing over 20 miles, |
Posted by: g2d on Dec-15-13 3:23 PM (EST)
a GP paddle should be excellent. For racing over 2 miles, a short blade and high angle are very good, though not as good as a wing paddle.
Clarifying the sliding seat issue|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Dec-15-13 3:38 PM (EST)
I would say the sliding seat has no real advantage for small, easy-to-move boats as long as you are not sprinting. Clearly a sliding seat would provide a huge advantage for a large, cumbersome boat, such as the ones used by those people who do solo ocean crossings, and it goes without saying that they are best for racing.
catch with GP versus wing|
Posted by: gstamer on Dec-17-13 9:56 PM (EST)
Interesting post, but I don't entirely agree on a few of you points:
wing vs gp catch|
Posted by: gjf12 on Dec-18-13 2:19 PM (EST)
It seems to me that with the wing one applies immediate and large power just at the instant of the start of the unwind, vs more gradually with the GP. The wing just grabs the water instantaneously, ready for max power application. The difference seems significant to me, but I am not a racer.
gp and wing opinions and ramblings...|
Posted by: gstamer on Dec-20-13 9:00 AM (EST)
I agree that a GP builds power more slowly than a wing. That said, the stroke with a GP is slightly longer due to the long blades. Even if you exit when your pulling hand reaches your hip, the blades will exit behind you. A common technique is lifting up on the canted blade on exit for a "boost".
few more comments|
Posted by: gjf12 on Dec-21-13 1:51 PM (EST)
".... the stroke with a GP is slightly longer due to the long blades."...
more opinions, long|
Posted by: gstamer on Dec-21-13 6:36 PM (EST)
"It seems to me that the greater length of the gp is due more to the stroke difference than the length. The wing blade is placed nearly vertically so that its leading edge moves mostly outward during the rotation. It can't move that far outward, which requires a shorter stroke".
Posted by: clydehedlund on Dec-22-13 1:55 PM (EST)
The trick is to "lock" and move the blade forward. The canoe or kayak moves in the direction of the force.
wing j, etc.|
Posted by: gjf12 on Dec-23-13 11:29 PM (EST)
Never heard of the wing j stroke, and I am skeptical. The wing blade does not want to go straight back, as far as I can tell. Do you have a video link to someone doing it?
flattened J and more...|
Posted by: gstamer on Dec-24-13 9:10 AM (EST)