I'm hoping someone out there can help me.
Paddling my 16 solo, when encountering 20 mph cross winds the tendency to weathercock towards the wind becomes a nearly insurmountable issue. I have 20 plus years experience with the single blade in solo boats, am fairly strong and have a reasonable level of competence. If I slow down substantially, the issue diminishes as expected. The sliding seat is positioned all the way back but even powerful sweep strokes don't do the job if reasonable speed is maintained.
I'm a sub 150 lb. lightweight and am wondering if I am simply too light for a 16ft. Solo in those type of wind conditions.
Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
4-place Boat Trailer
Touring Kayak Paddles
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Posted by: pblanc on Nov-18-13 5:05 PM (EST)
You might be on the light side for a 16 foot solo which would give it a lot of windage and make it more susceptible to weather cocking or lee cocking.
Maybe you do need a shorter boat |
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-18-13 5:42 PM (EST)
that also sits a bit deeper in the water. You may find that you can paddle it fast more effectively than you can your long boat.
You wonderful guys!|
Posted by: riverdave on Nov-18-13 7:11 PM (EST)
Your suggestions are truly appreciated and will be tried out tomorrow morn.
All of the Placid Boats|
Posted by: riverdave on Nov-18-13 7:22 PM (EST)
Are well outfitted to achieve the "locked in" quality that you speak of.
Sweeps Won't Do!|
Posted by: clydehedlund on Nov-18-13 7:51 PM (EST)
You'll have to paddle on the lee side only, using a pitched or C-Stroke (draw the bow towards the blade at the catch, then push the canoe straight ahead past the blade, and end the stroke by pushing the stern away from the blade. Move the sliding seat as far forward as possible. Moving it back will only work against you. 20 kt. wind is very doable, try paddling a rudderless 24 ft. solo outrigger in 30+ kt. wind, now that's hard work.
lightening the stern|
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-18-13 8:23 PM (EST)
Making the stern light just makes the boat head up into the wind more. The light stern gets blown downwind like a weather vane.
Stern heavy paddle on upwind side|
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-18-13 8:47 PM (EST)
with sweep component on all forward strokes. The Shadow is extremely trim sensitive, more so than many other canoes.
A sweep can be an inside-out "C"|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-18-13 9:13 PM (EST)
If it's trimmed properly, then all I can|
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-19-13 4:46 PM (EST)
add is to try to firm up your catch. Although I can c-stroke quite effectively, most of the time I just make sure my reach is well forward and my catch is firm. I can J-stroke too, but usually I don't. If you have a short, firm stroke, ending about when the blade passes your hip, the vector forces are going to make the boat go straight ahead.
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-19-13 5:10 PM (EST)
In a boat that is wanting to point upwind I would generally first try paddling on the upwind side using strong forward strokes and see if the tendency of the forward stroke to turn the boat offside balanced out the tendency of the wind to turn it toward your onside. Sometimes you can find a happy place when you can use nothing but forward strokes applied with abandon and no correction at all.
Good point - I should clarify|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-19-13 5:54 PM (EST)
My comment about big sweeps was not to imply that it's a good method. It's great for serious, momentary correction when the wind really wants to have it's way, but not on average, and not for the long haul. I've found, as you say, that simply paddling on the upwind side usually does the trick if the boat reasonably well-trimmed for the situation, such that little or no correction is needed -- power strokes only.
use a double blade paddle?|
Posted by: ret603 on Nov-19-13 8:26 PM (EST)
While I realize this is sacrilegious to those of you who worship at the "Church of the Single Blade", but may I respectfully suggest a double blade would have solved the problem. True devotees could use their single blade most of the time while having a two piece double blade hidden in the canoe for the times when needed (if there were no witnesses to this sacrilege).
Maybe, maybe not|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-20-13 12:12 AM (EST)
Maybe, maybe not|
Posted by: ret603 on Nov-20-13 12:15 PM (EST)
With a Greenland paddle, if more turning/corrective force is needed one grips the paddle at one end, adding a very long lever arm to the immersed blade. This magnifies the "corrective force" transmitted to the canoe/kayak. My 94" Aleutian paddle is approaching double the length of a single blade, so it can exert much more corrective force. Need someone with better math skills than me to put this down in numbers, I just know this is true by "seat of the pants" testing.
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-20-13 12:39 PM (EST)
Trim, lee stern pry, heel|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-20-13 12:05 AM (EST)
Best methodology is a rudder. End of story.
Does anybody make a kit|
Posted by: holmes375 on Nov-20-13 3:20 AM (EST)
to add a good rudder to a composite canoe? I'd like to rudder one of my boats as it would make a sweet photography and fishing platform set up as such.
Ooops... Wenonah Fusion n/t|
Posted by: holmes375 on Nov-20-13 3:25 AM (EST)
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-20-13 7:05 AM (EST)
Wenonah offers a SmartTrak Rudder system as a $300 option on the Fusion so they have all the parts ready to go and I'm certain they would be happy to tell you how to install it.
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-20-13 8:03 AM (EST)
I bought a Hemlock Kestrel partially to combat this problem. It is much more wind resistant to my other solos. The worst was my Swift Osprey. The Kestrel's low freeboard,minimal rocker,and being on the smallside for me all work to help. For me,a single blade is better in crosswinds-I carry both. A longer single like an ottertail is better yet,but would be akward while sitting.
Posted by: yknpdlr on Nov-20-13 8:51 AM (EST)
I agree with Glenn... sometimes heeling over in one direction or the other works. You want to break the bow lock that keeps it fixed, while the stern gets blown downwind. Heelng may loosen the bow so it is not locked to the water. But in a big blow there are waves to contend with. Heeling over may not be the wisest move, especially if the waves are not consistently predictable in size.
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-20-13 9:10 AM (EST)
What you seem to be suggesting is something like the old frontal resistance/eddy resistance concept, only with the air (wind) as the medium rather than the water (current).
A direct comparison|
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-20-13 12:28 PM (EST)
Once my wife and i were paddling on Round lake in a fair wind. She was in my Kestral and I was in my Osprey. She wanted to cut diagonally across to our campsite instead of hugging the shore. About half was across while I was struggling to keep the Osprey straight,I looked back to check on her and she was practically lillydipping alone without a care in the world.I love both boats,but for those conditions the Kestrel shines.
use the blade as a rudder more at the |
Posted by: bigspencer on Nov-20-13 1:25 PM (EST)
Thanks for the Wisdom|
Posted by: Riverdave on Nov-21-13 5:03 PM (EST)
All of your suggestions are appreciated.
remount the seat|
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-21-13 5:52 PM (EST)
If weighting the stern helped and you don't want to mess with weights, you could perhaps remount the sliding seat 6" or so further aft.
Now there' sang idea|
Posted by: riverdave on Nov-21-13 6:23 PM (EST)
I hadn't thought about. Brilliant!
..Yeah'..(lol), like those canoes not|
Posted by: bigspencer on Nov-22-13 3:03 PM (EST)
so fancy & expensive are made with...the old wilderness touring rear seat.. What a stretch of imagination, usually frowned upon by the upper middleclass as the "less aesthetic than the Advanced, Expensive model canoe".....rotfl
Some situations are no win(d)|
Posted by: mickjetblue on Nov-21-13 8:40 PM (EST)
Your craft is designed to handle much more weight than you have in it, and it is a fast paddling craft.
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-21-13 11:00 PM (EST)
Posted by: yknpdlr on Nov-22-13 8:50 AM (EST)
I will keep the echo going|
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-22-13 9:45 AM (EST)
I paddle big water like the Gulf of Mexico and Lake Superior about thirty days total each year.
Mostly agree with Kim-one thought|
Posted by: ret603 on Nov-22-13 10:58 AM (EST)
I have a superbly crafted lapstrake wooden canoe that occasionally weathercocks severely. It's a canoe based on a 150 year old design, and it has a fixed seat (on bottom) and fixed backrest just behind the center of hull, and yes, it is a canoe. I use a double blade paddle (not a kayak paddle) to propel it.
using a partial Canadien-style can|
Posted by: bigspencer on Nov-22-13 3:33 PM (EST)
Adding ballast weight: how, where?|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-22-13 1:56 PM (EST)
The benefits of adding weight near the middle of the canoe rather than the ends have been discussed, and I agree with those rationales. Mostly. However, if you are solely concerned with stopping severe windcocking, and not with end buouyancy, wave lift or swing weight, then putting the ballast at the very end of the hull may be the most effective place.
Posted by: riverdave on Nov-22-13 10:19 PM (EST)
I've been wondering what to do with that collection of dry bags up in the attic. Such an elegant solution, thank you!
Try it before you applaud|
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-26-13 11:09 AM (EST)
You may find yourself with a pond in the boat. Dry bags do not prevent leakage long term.. Water will seep out eventually..sometimes all at once as the middle gives way and the ends don't.
We Use Honey Buckets From the Outhouse|
Posted by: clydehedlund on Nov-25-13 1:25 PM (EST)
Placed in the middle of the double Old Towne canoe traveling downwind to the convenience center. Trust me, the upwind trip back is faster and the canoe handles better with empty buckets. Having an extra paddler helps, but adding additional weight is no substitute for improving technique.
vary your weight distribution with your|
Posted by: bigspencer on Nov-26-13 10:37 AM (EST)