Initial Stability in a Sea Kayak
Posted by: aocpaddle on Nov-14-13 10:54 PM (EST) Category: unassigned
Why would I not want to purchase a kayak with the highest initial stability - and secondary stability for that matter - assuming same width/length?
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Some basic stuff|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-14-13 11:29 PM (EST)
Try a Reflection...|
Posted by: t.george on Nov-15-13 9:30 AM (EST)
There are other ways of creating stability, there are always trade-offs. Sterlings Kayaks "Reflection" has very good initial stability and an extreme amount of very progresive and deep secondary stability yet also is one of the easiest rolling boats around. I believe much of this is accomplished through the rocker profile changing the "in water" volume as the boat is heeled over. I weigh about 155# and often put even smaller first timers in the Reflection and none have had any trouble edging the boat, I also know many in the 250# range that have the same experience in it. The Reflection is in fact almost too stable and prdictable in all conditions; such that if you don't somewhat regularly paddle other boats your skills get a bit lazy. There is a trade-off for speed; while the Reflection has a decent cruising speed it won't go much faster no matter the effort. No other sea kayak surfs like it though :>). All the best, tOM
Good example of what I meant|
Posted by: Guideboatguy on Nov-15-13 11:07 AM (EST)
You say it is easy to edge, which of course could not be true if it were extremely wide and flat-bottomed. It's an example of what you can do with a hull that falls between the two extremes I mentioned.
Thanks for the Replies!|
Posted by: aocpaddle on Nov-15-13 6:55 PM (EST)
Thanks for all the wisdom in your responses (and for not assuming I was a troll).
You're Not Alone|
Posted by: Kudzu on Nov-16-13 4:50 AM (EST)
A kayak buddy of mine has had a QCC 700 for years and he prefers to borrow one of my boats with a bit more initial stability.
Spend more time mixing it up with boats|
Posted by: Celia on Nov-16-13 10:16 AM (EST)
Posted by: aocpaddle on Nov-17-13 9:33 PM (EST)
Thanks for the advice. I have spent a little time at the pool, mostly practicing rolling. I will emphasize sculling next time I go to the pool and will continue to try to get more comfortable/relaxed with other stability profiles. It can only help me become a better paddler, I suppose. Maybe I just will continue to need my Romany babysitter. Which leads me back to my original post, besides the speed/acceleration, what is the joy of paddling a lower initial stability kayak? What are the other advantages over a kayak like a Romany, or similar hull design?
Posted by: Celia on Nov-18-13 10:13 PM (EST)
There are not a lot of boats out there with the combination of secure feeling and responsiveness of the Romany. Once in a while someone just gets it right.
Posted by: willi_h2o on Nov-15-13 12:53 AM (EST)
OK, but note that most of the ww kayak|
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-15-13 6:15 PM (EST)
community have gone over to flat-bottomed, sharp chined kayaks. Even creekers are trying to do it, though they try to find flattish creek boats where the edges are lifted enough not to catch rocks.
Is this a sponsoon troll?|
Posted by: seadart on Nov-15-13 1:13 AM (EST)
Posted by: bartc on Nov-15-13 8:11 AM (EST)
I get the physics.
Posted by: Jaybabina on Nov-15-13 8:04 AM (EST)
It's like riding a three wheel bike vs. a two wheel bike.
ok, that was really good|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-17-13 10:31 AM (EST)
I was just trying to think of a succinct and accurate answer. Yours is perfect.
What do you want to do with the kayak?|
Posted by: Celia on Nov-15-13 9:15 AM (EST)
You may be unstable yourself. So|
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-15-13 10:24 AM (EST)
go ahead, and buy the most stable kayak you can find. Or, find a used Hobie catamaran and take the mast off.
I believe you will find|
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-15-13 11:06 AM (EST)
that the performace of a highly stable boat will be something you will outgrow quickly. Characteristics (wide hull, deep keel, etc.) which make a boat highly stable tend to make the boat slow - both in forward progress and in response to conditions.
I believe you will find that replying to|
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-15-13 11:37 AM (EST)
the original poster often requires scrolling up to the top of the thread so as to click on the very first "reply" button.
Posted by: ppine on Nov-15-13 12:52 PM (EST)
Some good post here. With experience, most paddlers gladly give up some initial stability for really good secondary stability. That trade-off allows for greater speed and safety in rougher water. Some paddlers need to practice bracing to get their technique to the next level. Then the more advanced boats make more sense.
that was great|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-17-13 10:30 AM (EST)
Nice thumb in the eye of the volunteer forum cop.
A lot, real lot, of people like . . .|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-16-13 7:28 PM (EST)
. . . stable boats. Thus the popularity of rec kayaks among newbies and intermediate kayakers and tandem canoes for solo wilderness tripping.
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-18-13 12:51 PM (EST)
not everyone wants to have a boat that challenges their skills, but not everyone wants to paddle a water plow, either :).
If you want help with that brown stain,|
Posted by: Bob_d on Nov-18-13 3:26 PM (EST)
you will have to start a new thread.
practice in breaking waves|
Posted by: capefear on Nov-18-13 4:37 PM (EST)
More Great Inspiration|
Posted by: aocpaddle on Nov-18-13 8:35 PM (EST)
I found your post particularly inspiring. I'm going to bring the Cypress to the pool this week! I also have a nice place to bring it into some small (1 - 3 ft) breaking surf as well. This makes me think of the nice step forward I took once I became confident side surfing, rolling, and playing in the surf with my Romany. My only trepidation is I am not 100% consistent rolling the Cypress - but will work on this in the pool as well. FWIW: The 18X and V8 were both demoed/rented boats that I spent time in and liked for their acceleration but felt more similar to the Cypress in terms of stability.
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-19-13 4:20 PM (EST)
that the overall stability of a boat is largely a function of paddler skill, not hull design. The reason is obvious: any moderate sea/swell/wind condition quickly surpasses the envelope the hull design can handle. Odds are that the conditions will exceed the design when one enters or exits the surf zone as well (that is, in a sea kayak). WW kayaks and canoes surely cannot handle severe conditions on their own, it takes a paddler that is confident and capable in the prevailing conditions.