LL Remix XP9
Pyranha Fusion M
WaveSport Ethos 9
Jackson Rogue 9
Dagger Katana 9
Any others I should consider?
Which one would you choose and why?
I'll be using this about 3/4 on easy whitewater (Class II) and maybe 1/4 on flatwater, although I have other boats for flatwater. Might serve as an occasional loaner for someone else on flatwater though.
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Posted by: ShadyClip on Oct-25-13 9:28 PM (EST)
I demo'ed and eventually bought an XP10 in the last year and have been very happy with it for easy white water and narrow twisty streams but really not a flat water kayak beyond that it does tracks very well with the skeg down. This is probably going to be true with all the kayaks you are looking at.
I am familiar with three of the boats:|
Posted by: tdaniel on Oct-25-13 10:15 PM (EST)
I own and paddle frequently my xp10, demoed the Jackson, and paddle with several folks who use the Fusion. All three are capable whitewater boats. I wrote a review about the xp10. While I am aware of many of xp's shortcomings I'm sticking by my assertion that its good boat for beginners on whitewater and that it is a solid whitewater performer. The Jackson is quicker but not quite as forgiving. Be sure to check out the review section of the paddling.net website for all the boats you're interested in.
LiquidLogic Stinger XP?|
Posted by: Kocho on Oct-25-13 11:50 PM (EST)
Just coming out now - the new version of the Stinger with skeg and rear hatch. Fastest of the bunch, and at 24" wide is expected to be the least like the bath tubs most other cross overs are. I did not personally like the previous version's somewhat nose heavy/grabby behavior for attainments and it did not surf well (but ran well downriver). This version might be an improvement with flatter hull - looking forward to paddling it.
Prijon Combi 359|
Posted by: yaakker on Oct-26-13 8:16 AM (EST)
The Combi is an excellent choice as it is a true crossover. Although it is not being sold in the USA anymore you can still find one 'left over" or used. Google it to learn more
Posted by: radskierman on Oct-27-13 4:43 PM (EST)
I had a CombTour 359 as my first boat. Loved it! Good in up to class ll, probably a better more experienced paddler would be comfortable in class lll or better. Awesome quality plastic, and the outfitting is way above what you might expect in a crossover. Would recommend to anyone that fits the paddler specs for weight and shoe size.
Posted by: krusty on Oct-26-13 9:56 AM (EST)
demo in dayton, Bernie and Jeryl |
Posted by: tdaniel on Oct-26-13 11:09 AM (EST)
will set you up. Check out "Whitewater Warehouse" website for contact info. If you want to make a weekend out of it, do the drive to wv. Brad at Ace can hook you up as well. I'll paddle with ya. Plenty of class II/III opportunities here. wvwa does a beginners clinic late spring on the upper new which will ease your transition into whitewater if that's an issue. Where are you located in southern OH? That's my old stompin' grounds; 25 years ago I took the Hillbilly Highway (route 32) to wv. For me that road only went in one direction so I stayed.
Is my vision of Class 2 wrong|
Posted by: FrankNC on Oct-26-13 11:56 AM (EST)
For Class 2 whitewater, which I am told I run sometimes, I would really prefer a faster boat like something 12 to 14 feet like a Cobra Revision of a Dagger Alchemy.
Posted by: krusty on Oct-26-13 1:50 PM (EST)
Agree, that Dagger Alchemy is a nice boat.
No, Frank, you wouldn't. Not after |
Posted by: ezwater on Oct-26-13 6:04 PM (EST)
seeing what I can do on class 2 ww, and you can't. No need for speed on class 2 ww. The Nantahala is mostly class 2, and why would you need speed?
Exactly my thoughts, g2d, thanks|
Posted by: imitationcrab on Oct-26-13 8:13 PM (EST)
Thanks to ALL who took the time to respond... your insights are helpful.
How to choose|
Posted by: Dr_Disco on Oct-26-13 11:46 PM (EST)
All of these crossover boats are compromises but choose a different point on the scale. Forget about the skeg. If you need it you can use it and the boat will go forward without any effort on your part in calm water. But you sacrifice ability to maneuver. Learn to paddle and to correct and you will not need the skeg. But the models you list differ in which side of the scale they favor. The Jackson and the Pyranha are more suited to WW and the others are more suited to quiet water. Be honest. What are you really likely to do? For how long? Can you afford to sell the boat you choose and get another one? While which boat you select is important it is much more important for you to develop the skills to make the selection much less important.
Posted by: FrankNC on Oct-27-13 10:27 AM (EST)
Ok maybe I stick to class 1 as my maximum. Although I hear some of the places I paddle are class 2, I do not think I'll try any new places that are that level.
Good comments, Disco|
Posted by: imitationcrab on Oct-27-13 11:20 AM (EST)
We both have at least one other boat that we can use for flatwater, so for me, this new boat will be used for moving water exclusively. My friend may use the boat on both moving and flat water (only because we don't always want to deal with transporting a 75 pound SOT).
Dr. D I agree totally that the skillset|
Posted by: tdaniel on Oct-27-13 5:15 PM (EST)
is much more important than the differences between the boats. But if somebody is looking for a dry hair day on class II I think the xp would also serve them well so I would add that to your list of capable ww boats. Its cavernous cockpit, weight, and lack of a bulkhead are real issues for more serious ww but I simply can't imagine a more forgiving boat to paddle than the xp. That's why I keep paddling mine and I also like that its a very roomy boat- easy to climb in and out of,so I can stretch out in it- an often forgotten advantage of pegs vs a bulkhead.
I am waiting for|
Posted by: sapien on Oct-27-13 12:22 PM (EST)
the new Pyranha Fusion SOT coming out next year
why wait until next year?|
Posted by: tdaniel on Oct-27-13 5:57 PM (EST)
"just do it now!"
own three of mentioned boats|
Posted by: Ben on Oct-27-13 7:13 PM (EST)
I own a Rogue 10, Fusion 10, and Prijon Combi. I personally would not enjoy using the Combi on class II. It is a tourer at heart. The fusion versus the rogue: the fusion may be faster, the fusion is more stable, the fusion skeg works better. The rogue is sensitive to seat position, has a very watertight stern compartment, and is much easier to roll. Both roll, but for me the fusion requires a bit more bracing at the end whereas the rogue just snaps up. The rogue is far easier to drain after a swim - the water just pours out the coaming holes. The rogue feels a bit more playful, but the fusion is superior on flat water - can match my sea kayak speed for two miles on the lake. Have taken both through class II + water to date. Personal feelings - pool drop rivers, take either; wave play and rocks, take the rogue, down river speed, take the fusion. Hope this helps.
Posted by: imitationcrab on Oct-29-13 9:34 PM (EST)
That's some helpful "intel". :)
Posted by: ShadyClip on Oct-30-13 1:19 AM (EST)
One other thing about the Remix XPs, is that you can't easily slide the seat to trim the kayak. I think all of their whitewater kayaks you can just loosen the seat mounting screws on the cockpit rim to slide the seat forward and back a bit. The XP you would probably have to unmount the screws, move the seat and drill new holes in the cockpit rim.
Posted by: glendorado on Oct-30-13 7:34 AM (EST)
bought a 2013 remix XP9 a few weeks ago & paddled it on some flatwater & class II a few times now. Am totally sold on this boat. Tracks well even with the skeg not deployed.Outfitting is really comfy, easily adjustable. I haven't paddled the other boats you mentioned, so can only speak for the remix. It's not a race boat, but who cares? I'm not racing, just paddling. My buddy has a 2013 stomper 80, and I can keep up with him in whitewater no problem. Have fun shopping!