What is the difference technique-wise between the bow draw and the bow rudder? Are there any youtube videos anyone recommends that show this? Thanks ahead of time.
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The bow draw is active|
Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-20-13 1:50 PM (EST)
you draw the boat to the paddle.
aren't they the same?|
Posted by: capefear on Aug-20-13 1:51 PM (EST)
What I do and call a bow rudder is a bow draw. If I'm paddling backwards I do a bow pry. Then there is the cross bow rudder, which is also a bow draw. I don't use that regularly like the others though. But they're all considered bow rudders to my knowledge. Just like a stern draw and stern pry are both stern rudder strokes.
Posted by: jonsprag1 on Aug-21-13 7:31 PM (EST)
Posted by: pblanc on Aug-20-13 1:52 PM (EST)
Some might use both terms to refer to the same stroke. To me the bow rudder suggests a static stroke placement whereas the bow draw may be active or static.
Bow rudder is when you set the blade |
Posted by: castoff on Aug-20-13 1:55 PM (EST)
Out in front at an angle to turn the bow toward the blade. A bow draw is a draw stroke made near the bow to turn the bow to the side the stroke is done.
What castoff says|
Posted by: puffingin on Aug-20-13 2:08 PM (EST)
That's what I learned as bow draw vs bow ruddy in a moving water course.
I think I see what you guys are saying.|
Posted by: capefear on Aug-20-13 2:14 PM (EST)
A bow rudder the distance between the paddle blade and the hull wouldn't change. This could still be referred to as a bow draw. But a bow draw could also start wider and draw the hull and paddle blade closer together. So in that sense, I sometimes use a bow rudder using the momentum of my hull, and to get that last quick amount of turn as momentum slows, I'll slice the blade outwards from the bow and then draw them together with an active bow draw to finish.
You can make a bow turn more|
Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-20-13 2:21 PM (EST)
radical by combining the two. They are both used in canoeing BTW.. and they are distinctly different strokes. Usually the bow rudder is referred to as a hanging draw or part of an axle in FreeStyle.(canoeing)
the edging is different|
Posted by: capefear on Aug-20-13 2:33 PM (EST)
Yes, I noticed the edging is opposite between the whitewater kayak in the video, and what I do in a sea kayak. I imagine what's done in a long canoe would be more similar to a sea kayak. I use the pressure against the face of the blade for support to edge my sea kayak away from the paddle.
The outside edging is for a carved|
Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-20-13 2:52 PM (EST)
turn. Hydrodynamics are a little different whether you edge the turn side of the kayak or the outside edge.
Active vs. static strokes. Jabberwock.|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Aug-20-13 3:39 PM (EST)
Ah, wilderness. Ah, paddling. Ah, terminology.
Posted by: waterbearer on Aug-20-13 4:01 PM (EST)
Your first 5-6 paragraphs nailed it. I thought to respond but you covered it for most paddlers. After my intro reading I kept going, an enjoyed the interesting further exploration. Thanks
After a while |
Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-21-13 10:07 PM (EST)
all these strokes we all learn just start to blend together and it really is just a matter of putting the paddle in the water and doing what needs to be done to make the boat move in the desired direction.
Posted by: waterbearer on Aug-22-13 9:23 AM (EST)
As I grew into WW canoeing, I did so with minimal formal instruction - perhaps a mistake, but that's my story.
Posted by: jcbikeski on Aug-22-13 12:06 PM (EST)
I may often start with say a bow rudder or hanging draw but then move my blade a bit forward or back, change the angle and maybe do more draw to finesse what I need to do . Anyone practicing these strokes really needs to experiment with various placements, angles and movements and not get too hung up on one very specific named stroke.
that was a really good post.|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Aug-22-13 8:42 AM (EST)
especially to music! NM|
Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-22-13 8:52 AM (EST)
Glad you take the time|
Posted by: castoff on Aug-22-13 10:44 AM (EST)
To write your responses Glenn. I know this stuff, but just post the minimum unless asking a question most of the time. Thanks for taking the time. I too learned to paddle without training, but also read the more formal stuff latter in books. Paddling can be a prue pleasure as many here already know.
I appreciate that, Castoff|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Aug-22-13 12:00 PM (EST)
Like many others here, I do try to take my time to think through and compose detailed answers to some questions.
Posted by: fatdaddy on Aug-22-13 1:03 PM (EST)
everyone for your replies. Sometimes I tend to get a little too technical instead of just "going with the flow".
Now Go Try a "Reverse Bow Jamb"|
Posted by: clydehedlund on Aug-23-13 7:03 AM (EST)
You'll love it.
Its like music in a way|
Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-23-13 7:38 AM (EST)
my music instructor once told me that I should quit worrying about all the theory and just follow one rule - "play notes that sound good".
wrapped it up nicely|
Posted by: magooch on Aug-23-13 8:57 AM (EST)
Rpg51, your above post and the one a few posts back puts the whole paddling repertoire thing into perfect perspective. With enough practice, instinctive paddling makes it so sweet.