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  AT vs. Werner paddles
  Posted by: KatieD on Aug-19-13 3:53 PM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

-- Last Updated: Aug-19-13 3:56 PM EST --

I'm trying to decide between these two brands for a low angle touring paddle. I'm interested in the AT Quest carbon OR glass paddle, or else the Werner Camano(again, either glass or carbon).

I paddle mainly on lakes and slow, wide rivers. My paddle probably won't be getting banged much. I mainly paddle with no feather, and I'm planning on getting a straight shaft.

How much of a difference will it make for me to buy carbon? I'm not too worried about the weight, because I don't usually paddle for longer than a few hours(no big trips).

Do either of these glass paddles flutter? How fragile are they?

What about the AT Pursuit carbon? This paddle has a carbon reinforced nylon blade and a carbon shaft. It is 35 oz. The Werner Skagit CF is 32 oz. Obviously the nylon adds to the weight and lowers the price. Would it make the paddle more durable, though? I would appreciate a durable paddle, that won't make me cringe if it ever gets dropped, etc.

I won't be able to paddle either of them before I buy, unfortunately. I also don't have access to many other high end brands, so try to keep suggestions contained to these 2. Any opinions on differences between quality and durability, or are the evenly matched?


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Messages in this Topic

 

  werner fiberglass line
  Posted by: NateHanson on Aug-19-13 4:33 PM (EST)
The Camano and Shuna type of construction is very durable. I'd say they are the strongest touring blades in the Werner line (stronger than the top-end foam core).
 
 
  Just by coincidence
  Posted by: magooch on Aug-19-13 4:44 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-19-13 4:49 PM EST --

I recently bought a glass AT Quest. After giving the paddle a thorough testing, it went back to the shop where I bought it. The paddle has no identifiable catch and it cavitates like nobodies business. Other than that, it is kind of heavy, but it does have a neat ferrule.

The paddle I use the most is a glass Werner Camano and it is the real deal. It does demand that you use proper paddling technique, but so much the better and I have been using the Camano for the past few years. However, I still wanted a new paddle to use as a spare for the sea kayak I use the most and as the first choice for my other sea kayak. To make a long story a little shorter, I found what I think might be one of the best kept secrets in paddledom--the all fiberglass Carlisle Expedition. Well, I didn't really find it; I got a nice discount off the regular $159.95 price. This honey is worth every penny of that price and then some. It isn't quite as light as the Camano, but it is light as glass paddles go and the shaft and blades are very rigid as they should be.

So here's my best advice: If you want a truly great paddle, go for the Camano, but if you want to save over a hundred bucks and still get one heck of a good paddle, take a look at the Carlisle Expedition. I don't mean just look at a picture on the Internet; go put one in your hands. Better yet, buy both paddles. Maybe you can find a shop that will make you a package deal.

 
 
  Well...
  Posted by: carldelo on Aug-19-13 11:03 PM (EST)
Well, you mean the paddle ventilates, i.e. pulls air down with the blade, not cavitates, but we know what you mean.

That Quest FG blade is funky looking, with the wide spine down the middle, I can see why it ventilates. A far cry from the really nice shape of their top-of-the-line low-angle, low-area, foam cored carbon blades. I really love mine, but they sure are expensive these days. Mine is from 2006, I think it's an Xception, or whatever it used to be called.
 
 
  Save Yourself Some Money
  Posted by: Kudzu on Aug-19-13 5:23 PM (EST)
Skip the Euro thing and get yourself a good Greenland paddle.

http://www.lumpypaddles.com/
 
 
  Excellent suggestion!
  Posted by: radskierman on Aug-20-13 1:24 PM (EST)
Might also look at Beale paddles for WRC construction or Northern Lights Paddles for 3 piece Carbon fiber GP's. Or buy my never used any more Onno euro style carbon fiber!
 
 
  Either
  Posted by: Kocho on Aug-20-13 2:02 AM (EST)
I have not addled the recent AT touring paddles, only the old version of the Xeption (sp?). The thing to understand with these is that they are not meant to be used with brute force or for max power applications. They are meant for touring. Steve S. (designer/involved with AT) has mentions here that these are he closest to a Greenland paddle you can get in a Euro style paddle.

As for carbon reinforced plastic blades, they are heavy. The swing weight is want you will feel compared to the full carbon version, which is what everyone should be getting if they don't need max impact resistance for rock bashing and can afford it.

Why are you not looking at the Kalliste too? A very nice low angle paddle...
 
 
  AT vs Werner
  Posted by: gjf12 on Aug-20-13 2:08 AM (EST)
My bent shaft 220 cm AT Xception tour weighs 28.4 oz. My bent shaft 220 cm Werner Kalliste weighs 28.4 oz. Both are carbon. Both are excellent. A matter of personal preference. If you can afford it, get the lightest possible paddle.
 
 
  I'm
  Posted by: jimx200 on Aug-20-13 2:47 AM (EST)
using a Cannon Nokomis at 240 and it's made of aluminum and plastic composite, weighs 37oz and strong as heck. Not for small people.
 
 
  typo
  Posted by: gjf12 on Aug-20-13 12:46 PM (EST)
The Kalliste is 24.9 oz, not 28.4 as written. The AT is 28.4.
 
 
  Why don't you have access?
  Posted by: tsunamichuck1 on Aug-20-13 3:36 AM (EST)
internet is wonderful thing. Werner's are good paddles, made in The USA. I thing Confluence (AT parent company) is shifting production to China and QC is still hit or miss. The Camano is an excellent starting paddle. I would not limit yourself to just Werner or AT in the future
 
 
  I'm not looking at
  Posted by: KatieD on Aug-20-13 8:47 AM (EST)
Kalliste because it is even more expensive than Camano. I want to get a good paddle, but cost DOES matter for me.

I'm sticking to these 2 brands because they both have good paddles and I can see them and feel them in person. If I have trouble with them, I can take them back to the store and they can deal with it(it is easy) I'm not an experienced paddler, and while I want to get a good paddle, I don't need to get the best paddle ever.

Has anyone used those carbon reinforced nylon blade paddles?(like the Skagit) Are they awful, or are they actually good paddles that are just a little heavier?

I imagine Camano will be my choice.
 
 
  eddyline/swift make great paddles
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Aug-20-13 8:57 AM (EST)
I'd put them up against Werner.
 
 
  I've use them
  Posted by: Kocho on Aug-20-13 9:41 AM (EST)
I've used Werner's Desperado (white water paddle, carbon reinforced plastic blades on a carbon-fiberglass shaft). Also had Lendal's plastic Kinetic Touring blades. Both are good, just heavy as you said. You get tired faster, but otherwise good blades. Very durable too. I have not paddled the blades you list in any construction, so can't compare. To me there is a significant difference due to the weigh compared to a foam-core full carbon paddle that, if you are buying for the long term, is worth it.

If cost is an issue, check the used market too, even if you go for plastic. Pretty much half-price or a bit more would be a good deal on a paddle in decent shape.

As some one else said, for the type of paddling you describe, a Greenland paddle would work great. Borrow one of you have not and ask an experienced paddler to help you learn to use it properly. IMO, nothing beats a GP for a relaxing day on the water and when the wind picks up. Easy to make if you are so inclined or order from one of the many makers.
 
 
  I own a couple Skagits
  Posted by: holmes375 on Aug-20-13 1:28 PM (EST)
in long lengths for use with canoes. I have both the carbon/nylon and fiberglass/nylon versions.

Very good paddles, lotta bang for the buck. Prefer the carbon/nylon for its lighter weight. Both are nearly indestructible.

I paddled a Camano for some years - now prefer the Shuna & Corryvrecken styles. Camano is a very good all arounder. Two of my paddling partners have used the Camano for years and wouldn't think of changing. This is why the Camano is so incredibly popular - it fits a wide variety of paddlers and styles.

The Skagit is a Camano design but it is a slightly smaller blade thus less powerful in the water. Outside of this the Skagit feels just like a Camano in the water.

One doesn't need to spend $400 to get a good paddle. I love my Ikelos but my carbon/nylon Tybee gives me more return on the dollar spent. And I've used the latter on many a long paddling day.

Good luck to you and enjoy whichever you choose.
 
 
  As with everything else...
  Posted by: wavespinner on Aug-20-13 12:49 PM (EST)
...matter of personal preference. I started with Werners for ww and touring and have migrated to AT over the years. For me, they have proven more durable and paddle better. Not a fan of foam core blades because the buoyancy (try a depth check to feel the resistance) requires more effort over long hauls.
 
 
  Camano
  Posted by: bignate on Aug-20-13 1:18 PM (EST)
The Camano is a fine paddle, particularly for someone relatively new to kayaking. It's the paddle I used for my first couple years of paddling. During that time, I realized I preferred a higher-angle stroke, so I ended up getting an Ikelos, which is still my favorite all-around sea kayak paddle.

That being said, if I was doing mostly sea kayaking touring/day-paddling, I would probably be using a Greenland stick as my primary paddle. I still think there's a lot of benefit to being proficient with the euro blade, but I'd definitely recommend trying one sometime.
 
 
  greenland paddle
  Posted by: KatieD on Aug-20-13 3:39 PM (EST)
What do people like about using a greenland paddle? How do they feel different? Where do they excel?
 
 
  I'm a Total Convert
  Posted by: Kudzu on Aug-20-13 5:03 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-30-13 5:50 AM EST --

I sold my Euro paddles 'cause someone turned me on to the GP. The deciding factor for me to sell my Euros was a swim in the sound. I got knocked over by surprise by a wave from my five o'clock and I freaked and punched out. I had a Euro and a GP with me. It took me about 10 seconds to realize that the best tool to re-enter and roll up with was the GP. There's no up nor down nor left nor right nor power face nor non-power face. Grab the GP anywhere and it's ready to use.

For me, the GP excels at:

Indexing... you always know the angle of the blade because of the shoulder. You know how slippery sunscreen on your hands makes it difficult to get a grip on a Euro? The shoulder of the GP makes that go away. No more slipping.

Wind... for me, and many people, the GP shines in the wind. I never have a gust grab my paddle and try to rip it out of my hands like happens with the Euro. I don't know the physics of it but it's real.

Feel... wood just feels better than fiberglass or carbon fiber.

Rolling... like I mentioned before, I think the GP is the best tool for rolling. Bracing is very different than with a Euro.

Downside... My GPs don't break down. Not a big deal until you want to fly with it somewhere.

 
 
  You
  Posted by: Fadedred on Aug-20-13 5:16 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-20-13 5:17 PM EST --

missed one of the most important features of the Greenland Paddle.... how the Greenland paddle interacts / feels in the water...LIKE SILK. and some Greenland paddles do break down for air travel. Several into 2 piece and a few into 3 piece. {then there are mine...4 or 5 piece}
Best Wishes
Roy

 
 
  Me too!
  Posted by: jsmarch on Aug-22-13 4:24 PM (EST)
I have two bent shaft 220 cm AT Xceptions sitting in my garage. Haven't used either one since converting to the skinny stick almost over a dozen years ago. But, if I were to use a Euro blade it would be an unfeathered AT Xception or current version...
 
 
  Have I Thanked You Lately
  Posted by: Kudzu on Aug-23-13 4:58 AM (EST)
for introducing me to the GP?


Thank you.
 
 
  Kudzu
  Posted by: jsmarch on Aug-23-13 11:22 AM (EST)
Thank you and Bill Bremer and Dawn Stewart and the Inuits...!
 
 
  GP pros and cons
  Posted by: radskierman on Aug-20-13 6:14 PM (EST)
Cons... no good in bony streams and most whitewater situations.
Pros... everything mentioned by Kudzu in the previous post...
PLUS... less stress on your joints.
A very natural (hate to sound hokey) but almost zen like feel in the water.
Much easier to do either a sculling draw or a sculling brace IMHO.
The wood version is warmer in the cold months. At least it feels that way to me.
As for paddling in the wind, they have what is termed a storm paddle configuration, which basically eliminates the loom and makes a shorter paddle. I've paddled with my normal GP in 30 knot, gusting to 40 knot winds and never felt like I needed a shorter paddle. As Kudzu said, wind seems to be a non factor. I doubt I will ever paddle in winds stronger than 30 knots!
CAVEAT... the first time user ALWAYS says it feels like the paddle is fluttering as you draw it through the water. That goes away with an hour or two of paddling. Now, if I use a euro (usually because someone wants to try my GP!) the euro feels like it is fluttering!
 
 
  One more vote for greenland paddles
  Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-23-13 7:49 AM (EST)
I made the switch to greenland paddles almost immediately after I started paddling kayaks a few years ago. I do have a beater euro for those times when I find myself in a boney stream. Other than that it is 100% greenland for me. For all the reasons listed. I have a Lumpy and I love it. I don't see myself ever going back to a euro blade.
 

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