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  blackhawk canoe identification
  Posted by: jcreekblackhawk on Aug-17-13 8:09 PM (EST)
   Category: Canoes 

-- Last Updated: Sep-09-13 6:39 PM EST --

I recently purchased a Blackhawk canoe and need a little information about it. It is 15'9" long, 31 1/2" wide at the seat and weighs about 40#. The last 2 digits on the serial # is 94, so I believe that is the year it was made. I was wondering what model it is and how much is it worth? Also it needs some fiberglass work to make it seaworthy, what is the best way to patch some of the cracks?

I can't load any pictures, but found a pic of one that looks exactly the same http://photos.bwca.com/t/THEBOB.COM-070511-145725.JPG

Thanks


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  Old BlackHawk
  Posted by: CEWilson on Aug-17-13 11:32 PM (EST)
The StarShip was 15'10" but my records indicate 28" wide.

Phil made a couple combi boats, one a Shadow series, another a touring series hull, but I don't have dimensions. Obviously they would have been wider than the solo boats, and one might have been rigged with a solo seat.

Value of any un-inspected boat is pretty iffy. A Fiberglass hull needing repair is even more questionable. What shape are the rails/thwarts/seat of this 19 year old boat in? What needed hull repair? etc.

Maybe $300 if it can be paddled? Less if not.
 
 
  Blackhawk canoe................
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-18-13 12:40 PM (EST)
Will get back to you later this afternoon w/ info.
Going to test paddle 2 canoes now.

BOB
 
 
  Blackhawk canoe.........
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-18-13 10:45 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-18-13 10:47 PM EST --

3 likely suspects:

Blackhawk Shadow SS Special
Length: 15' 8"
Width: at gunwales 27 inches

Blackhawk Combi
Length: 15' 9"
Width: at gunwales 29 1.2 inches

Blackhawk Starship
Length: 15' 10"
Width: at gunwales 28 inches

The Combi usually has 3 seats. If the center seat has been removed, it would be easy to see where it had been mounted.

The Starship has a unique stern deck treatment; it may also have a unique seating set up(called the Integrated Component System). A seat can be slotted into, or removed from this system, and the seat placed at different heights.

The Shadow SS Special is a very pretty canoe "in my opinion". It is unique in that you seldom see that model. I have only seen 2 of them in the last 10 years, and one of those is mine.

Posting a couple of photos of your Blackhawk would be really helpful in identification.

BOB

 
 
  If it's a solo, could be a Starship
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-18-13 7:46 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-19-13 12:26 PM EST --

Although as Charlie pointed out there were other models of similar length and width which could have been set up as solo. Can you provide a picture?

BTW, I just found a Facebook page for Blackhawk Canoes that was started in February:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Blackhawk-Canoes/311239858999476

Apparently someone has bought the molds and they are trying to start production again! Does anyone know anything about this?

 
 
  Blackhawk reborn? That would be
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-18-13 10:44 PM (EST)
Interesting, especially with modern carbon/kevlar construction for lighter and tougher hulls.
 
 
  Blackhawk reborn?
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-18-13 11:02 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-18-13 11:05 PM EST --

There are only 4 Blackhawks, "in my opinion" that would be worth the effort:

Starship
Shadow SS Special
Zephyr
Ariel

I don't see Blackhawks rising from the ashes like a phoenix. I wouldn't give up my original Ariel, Zephyr, or SS Special, and I damn sure wouldn't pay 3, 4 or 5 times what I paid for them, no matter what layup they use. I don't care if vestal virgins make them, and the gunwales are made of wood from Noah's ark.


BOB

 
 
  LOL!
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-18-13 11:12 PM (EST)
 
 
  Wood from Noah's ark?
  Posted by: vic on Aug-21-13 12:14 AM (EST)
Well Bob, maybe. If it can be verified.
 
 
  I wouldn't mind watching the virgins
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-21-13 9:21 AM (EST)
do the layup. However, their status may be even more difficult to verify.
 
 
  Not a problem for me
  Posted by: puffingin on Aug-21-13 12:26 PM (EST)
As long as they have nicely formed pecs and abs and nice tight little buns, are topless and wearing cute little running shorts, and are not too hairy, doesn't matter if they're virgins or not. I can still enjoy the view. Also don't care where the wood came from either.
 
 
  Alas, the Vestals were female
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-21-13 12:50 PM (EST)
 
 
  Tks for the correction, I guess ...
  Posted by: puffingin on Aug-21-13 1:48 PM (EST)
I think I must have confused vestal virgins with wastrel virgins.
 
 
  Good wood?
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-21-13 4:33 PM (EST)
I am satisfied with the ash and/or mahogany wood trim on my Blackhawks.

If I had wood verified as being part of Noah's ark; I'd be happy to let Sothebys handle the sale......to the highest bidder.

I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more fun frittering away the proceeds of the sale on canoes, motorcycles, and a Shelby Cobra than owning a piece of bibilical memorabilia.

Vestal virgins: I'm pretty sure I can live without them too. They're probably high maintenance.......

BOB
 
 
  Don't sound like your type either
  Posted by: puffingin on Aug-21-13 7:37 PM (EST)
Here's what I copied from Wikepedia regarding vestal virgins. I don't think they appreciate canoeing, motorcycles, fast cars and I suspect your basic philosophies of life would clash.

"In ancient Roman religion, the Vestals or Vestal Virgins (Vestales, singular Vestalis), were priestesses of Vesta, goddess of the hearth. The College of the Vestals and its well-being was regarded as fundamental to the continuance and security of Rome. They cultivated the sacred fire that was not allowed to go out. The Vestals were freed of the usual social obligations to marry and bear children, and took a vow of chastity in order to devote themselves to the study and correct observance of state rituals that were off-limits to the male colleges of priests"
 
 
  B H Redux
  Posted by: CEWilson on Aug-21-13 8:16 AM (EST)
Re-establishing BlackHawk would be a heavy lift. The line is diverse with one twitchy tandem, two combi boats and seven solos, the StarShip, Ariel and Shadow SS filling the same niche.

Phil was an innovative trim designer but those innovations arrived piecemeal, differing from boat to boat. The Blackhawk array did not share common trade dress.

BlackHawk was lost competitiveness in the early 90's the apogee of the solo canoe. It would be difficult to kick start that failed line in a market focused on rotomolded rec boats and SUP boards.

 
 
  Redux II
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-21-13 10:04 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-21-13 10:23 AM EST --

Actually there was more than one Blackhawk tandem.
1. Phantom
2. Watersmeet

And there was more than 7 solos.
1. Shadow 11'7"
2. Shadow 13'
3. Shadow 14'6"
4. Shadow SS Special 15'8"
5. Ariel
6. Zephyr
7. Starship
8. Covenant
9. Nighthawk(outfitted w/pedestal) aka Fishhawk(outfitted w/ wood/cane seat.
10. Proem

Additionally, a model called the Kittyhawk was offered for sale in 1988(other years?). It was 12'2" in length. The Nighthawk & Fishhawk had the same hull, 13'3" in length.

I have also seen a listing in 1992 of a Blackhawk called a Pro Star. I believe this to be nothing more than an adaptation(minor changes in depths) of the Starship.

BOB

 
 
  Clarification
  Posted by: CEWilson on Aug-21-13 3:13 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-21-13 5:45 PM EST --

I owned a Covenant and two Proems, one Kevlar, but they are Pat Moore designs and probably unavailable to resurrectionists. Phil dropped them when Pat drew the Reveries.

Kitty Hawk, Night Hawk and Fish Hawk, a NH with cane seat, were Bob Brown designs lodged between Pat's and Phil's own designs, hence probably not acceptable to those dedicated to ascension either. Phil replaced them with the much improved Shadow series.

What dimensions do you have for Watersmeet? For that matter, what dimensions do you have on the lot, mine are pretty sketchy.

 
 
  Watersmeet dimensions......
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-21-13 10:05 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-22-13 11:57 AM EST --

Length: 16'9"
Width: Gunwales 35.5" Waterline 30"
Depth: Bow/Center/Stern 24"/15"/21"
6" Freeboard capacity: 1,100 lb.
Weight: Silver layup: 69 lb.
Gold layup: 57 lb.

An all-round tandem: for tripping, touring, day paddle, family canoe.
Standard with walnut decks, contrasting mitered outwales, and contoured portage yoke.

Source: Blackhawk catalog.

P.S. I am currently seeking a Blackhawk Covenant.
Recently purchased little used, excellent condition Proem; saved it from obscurity of long time storage. Thinking it may offer some unique photo ops to those standing on shore; when brave volunteers decide to "give it a go".



BOB

 
 
  I'm game
  Posted by: pblanc on Aug-22-13 12:51 PM (EST)
I'll fall out of your canoe if you take my picture.

Just bring it to the Rendezvous.
 
 
  Pete...............
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-22-13 2:52 PM (EST)
You will likely have an opportunity to test paddle my Proem at the Vous.

It is currently in "holding pattern" in central Wisconsin, but should be arriving with PJC; stalwart boat hauler/handler, bon vivant, ranconteur, libertine, and suspected serial ax murderer.

BOB
 
 
  I've paddled a Moore Proem with
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-22-13 1:49 PM (EST)
no problem. Would Blackhawk's be more challenging?
 
 
  Not coming to fall vous
  Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-22-13 2:04 PM (EST)
but I would like to see comparative shots of you and Pblanc in the Proem.
 
 
  Moore Proem.................
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-22-13 3:04 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-22-13 3:13 PM EST --

For all practical purposes; the Moore & the Blackhawk Proem are one & the same Yanoer........you, little, long haired, Illinois corn field, irrigation ditch paddling, leaping gnome.

Are you going to come to the Fall Vous, and demonstate your unique & wonderous, Proem free style paddling moves? I want to see you dip gunwales in the water, do 360 degree spin moves, and have camera ready to document same.
Great pnet photo of the week op..............

BOB

 
 
  Proem: a tippy baby fish-countngboat?
  Posted by: puffingin on Aug-22-13 3:37 PM (EST)
Have you paddled it, Bob. I think I'd like to see a picture of that.
 
 
  Yanoer, bring it to Midwest
  Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-22-13 4:05 PM (EST)
We can help you shut thebob up. Remember when you go to Rendezvous, bring extra sleeping bags.

Wildernesswebb..we will of course need pix.. might be pic of the year.

You might paddle irrigation ditches, but that is a mighty fine garage you have.
 
 
  Only the best boats for our irrigation
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-22-13 6:33 PM (EST)
ditches.
 
 
  Fish counting................
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-23-13 1:03 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-23-13 1:07 AM EST --

Haven't paddled Proem yet; have to wait until Rendezvous. Pat is bringing it down to me from Wisconsin.

Have paddled my Nighthawk with permanently affixed pedestal. It's a bit twitchy; especially on the river. Sitting on it's pedestal, my rear end is nearly above the gunwales.

I'm thinking with pedestal that's mounted in the Proem, I'll be lucky if my rear end is not "above" gunwales in it too. Proem is shorter & has a rather unique hull shape when compared to the Nighthawk. It could get interesting.

No sweat; I've dumped more than one canoe, and haven't melted yet. At least I don't try to crash through, and end up "going under" strainers in a little kayak, like Pam.

BOB

 
 
  Bob
  Posted by: PJC on Aug-23-13 5:04 PM (EST)
The Proem as I have it now has no pedestal, you know...
It has a sliding cane seat with a back (that mounts to the rails) that the owner used with a kayak paddle.
 
 
  Thanks Pat.............
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-23-13 7:11 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-23-13 7:19 PM EST --

Yikes! You didn't get the pedestal !!!
You left part of the Proem "in the barn" !!!

Just kiddin' Pat............
I have a new/never used, Pat Moore pedestal I received in boot on a canoe deal several years ago. It will be going into the Proem.

:^)
BOB

 
 
  Does that pedestal slide on tracks
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-23-13 11:33 PM (EST)
or attach with velcro?

One of my Flashfires has tracks for a pedestal to slide in.
 
 
  Freestyle? I don't do no freestyle.
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-22-13 6:31 PM (EST)
I just said I had no trouble paddling it.

Don't know if I'm coming to the fall vous.
 
 
  Pedestal attachment
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-24-13 9:01 AM (EST)
It attaches will velcro.

Am thinking about mounting a regular wood/cane seat in the Proem, but also putting down the velcro strips for the pedestal, so there are 2 seating options with only minor effort.

BOB
 
 
  Thanks for helping me find my identity.
  Posted by: Yanoer on Aug-22-13 6:32 PM (EST)
I was forgetting who I am :)
 
 
  Information filled thread
  Posted by: puffingin on Aug-22-13 10:33 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-22-13 11:09 AM EST --

Hopeful that OP isn't feeling that his original questions aren't being addressed as well as possible by several very knowledgeable board members and he or she doesn't feel thread's his or her thread has been high-jacked/jilled. My first intro to Blackhawk canoes was seeing PJC paddling his beautiful BH on the Wisconsin R. A sight to see.

The names of the various models is what has really struck me.

Arial, a spirit in Shakespeare's play the Tempest, bound to the magician Prospero as his eyes and ears as an honor obligation after Prospero rescued her from the trees where she'd been imprisoned. Also, earlier,
Arial is in Book of Isaiah in the Bible; name means "Lion of God." More currently, Arial is Disney "Little Mermaid" with her long, deep red locks who hangs around with a fat little fish.


The Shadow is a character from 1930's pulp magazine series: crime-fighting vigilante with psychic powers and then a radio show of the 50's: "The Shadow knows."

Zephyr: a light or west wind or Greek god of west wind.

Starship: interstellar spacecraft or ref to Jefferson SS: band from 1070s which contained members from Jefferson Airplane. Those old enough know about them.

Covenant: legal and biblical for an agreement or pact.

Nighthawk: a nocturnal bird in the nightjar family with small feet, long pointy wings, having voracious appetites for insects and known for jerky flight. Fishhawk: sometimes name for an osprey.

Phantom: traditionally a ghost, a physical manifestation of the soul or spirt.

Proem: preface, preamble, prelude; from Greek: pro + oime meaning song.

Watermeet: a Township in Gogebic County, UP Michigan near the Wisconsin border. ??

Does anyone know the Blackhawk Co. owner(s) personally and personality?






 
 
  Odd names indeed
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-22-13 12:44 PM (EST)
...for canoes, anyway. I have a Starship and I love it. I will keep it until I cannot carry it anymore (it is a tad heavy for a solo compared to today's fancy boats). But really, "Starship"? Was the man a Trekkie or did some resin fumes get to him? We will probably never know.

The OP hasn't replied with some pictures. That would solve the mystery.

I'm surprised PJC has not made an appearance here. He has an Ariel and a Starship. He was very kind to help me when I was searching for a replacement seat for my Starship.
 
 
  Blackhawk Phil
  Posted by: Waitup on Aug-22-13 4:03 PM (EST)
I think he was a Navy Seal. One hell of a good guy. We had his Phantom tandem. Very fast & sleek, beautiful lines. Got my first canoe at Blackhawk on the Rock R. back when life was easy. Deciding between the somewhat sluggish, oil-canning Mad River Exp. or a Sawyer, Phil steered us a bit toward the Sawyer and a few thousand miles later I Thank you.
 
 
  the watersmeet nimrods
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Aug-22-13 4:20 PM (EST)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deouwysIzm0
 
 
  Sure
  Posted by: CEWilson on Aug-22-13 10:13 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-22-13 10:15 PM EST --

Phil Sigglekow was a great guy, took the westbound a couple years ago.

 
 
  Bob, check Hemlock
  Posted by: mvbrando on Aug-23-13 2:59 AM (EST)
Hi Bob.
In case you haven't seen it, Dave Curtis has a Covenant in excellent condition in the used section at
his www.hemlockcanoe.com

For those who might not know, Dave's operation was affiliated with Phil and Blackhawk as Canoe Specialists years ago. They sold both Curtis and Blackhawk canoes in each of their shops.

Phil had a very special way about him. He would make you feel good by just being around him. Just a great guy. Happy and positive.
 
 
  Covenant.................
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-23-13 10:50 AM (EST)
Thanks for the heads up...........

Have looked at the Covenant for sale on Hemlock website on numerous occasions. Even made an inquiry. It certainly appears to be in prime condition. I'd be willing to bet that boat has spent most of it's life in storage, and was seldom paddled.
A little too pricey for my taste however; especially when shipping costs from east coast to midwest is taken into consideration.
Guess that's one I'll have to live without.

BOB
 
 
  Covenant
  Posted by: mvbrando on Aug-23-13 12:26 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-23-13 12:27 PM EST --

I admire your good sense and strong will.

... oh yes, and also your canoe collection.

... and then there's your paddle collection.

 
 
  Can gget it to
  Posted by: kayamedic on Aug-23-13 12:42 PM (EST)
Ohio in Sept.
 
 
  Can get it from Ohio to Chicago in Sept
  Posted by: canoeist11 on Aug-23-13 2:34 PM (EST)
 
 
  An offer you can't refuse, Bob
  Posted by: Canuka on Aug-23-13 2:29 PM (EST)
Sell me your Ariel, buy the Covenant you covet from Curtis and kayamedic delivers for free.
 
 
  Appreciate assistance offers............
  Posted by: thebob.com on Aug-23-13 4:33 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-23-13 4:38 PM EST --

Bought these 4 canoes in the past couple of months:
Mad River Screamer
Blackhawk Proem
Clipper Prospector
Wenonah Moccasin

There is currently "no room in the canoe manger", and I think the Covenant price is too high.

BOB

P.S. My Ariel might be available one day. Most likely you'd be dealing with my wife, and daughter, or the executor of my estate.

 

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