Are hard chimes my problem?
Posted by: old_user on Aug-03-13 8:45 PM (EST) Category: Kayaks
So I've been kayaking for a few years and I've owned two boats thus far: Current Designs Whistler (14'6" x 24" w/ soft chimes) and Nigel Foster Legend (17'10" x 21" w/ hard chimes).
I sold the Whistler, while it was a good boat for a beginner I wanted something a little faster, and then bought the Foster. When I tested it it felt great and seemed pretty sleek. Since then I've come to kind of hate the boat. I kayak on a pretty calm lake the majority of the time just paddling around with some friends and relaxing. I started noticing a problem though, when I stop paddling for a few seconds and if I don't play complete attention my boat will just start curving one way or another. It's extremely hard to keep it going in a straight line once I stop paddling and relax. I've taken it out several times and find this happens every time to some degree and it never really turns one direction more than the other it's generally 50/50. I also seem to have to do a lot more corrective paddling to keep on course than I did with the Whistler. Putting the skeg down helps some, but only a little bit. I never had that issue with the Whistler so I'm thinking it's probably a chime issue (hard vs soft). Am I right?
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It's not the chines|
Posted by: LeeG on Aug-03-13 8:49 PM (EST)
It's the boat. Caribou has chines and it's less noticeable . The Legend is one persons design, it may not be yours.
Not chines; probably rocker|
Posted by: edzep on Aug-03-13 8:56 PM (EST)
Yeah, after I switched from hard tracking boats to boats better suited for manuevering, I noticed the same thing. It makes photography difficult, because you'd like to drift in a straight line while lining up shots and working with the camera. (Ha, it gets much worse shooting pic from a whitewater kayaks.) If your boat has a skeg, put it down when you need to coast. When you take off again, you may find your boat seems sluggish... then remember to flip the skeg up.
Could Be Boat Size, Too|
Posted by: vk1nf on Aug-03-13 9:01 PM (EST)
Posted by: old_user on Aug-04-13 5:50 PM (EST)
Posted by: suiram on Aug-04-13 5:59 PM (EST)
At your weight, that boat is going to be extremely responsive to edging.
Posted by: hikenmike on Aug-03-13 9:06 PM (EST)
Keep in mind that the skeg doesn't need to be deployed All the way down. Try a half inch at a time or so to help maintain your course.
Posted by: suiram on Aug-03-13 9:12 PM (EST)
Legend is an awesome design if one desires a boat that will react to each butt wiggle - it reacts to edges like very few kayaks.
Weight and edging|
Posted by: old_user on Aug-04-13 5:54 PM (EST)
That would be my guess as well. I bet it's a really sweet boat for rough water, but for calm water I don't think it's a few good match, at least for me.
Totally agree with weight|
Posted by: Jaybabina on Aug-05-13 8:22 AM (EST)
The legend is a long boat and thus designed to carry a lot of weight for expeditions. I have paddled the boat many times and I weigh 185. I found the boat teetering from one side to another. I'm sure with more weight in it, it would sink deeper and settle down. I had no real problem with not tracking straight but I might have been subtlety correcting ??
not the chines|
Posted by: capefear on Aug-03-13 11:33 PM (EST)
You're paddling mostly on a calm lake. and find directional control extremely hard.
I'm no expert but|
Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-04-13 7:50 AM (EST)
I have gone through this same sort of thing. I have paddled open canoes in all conditions all my life and I appreciate the differences between boats designed for straight ahead paddling and boats designed for great maneuverability. There is also a middle ground. I have discovered that kayaks are the same. No one boat can do everything well. So if you are looking for a boat that is easy to keep on track without a lot of conscious effort then you don't want to be in a boat that is designed for the opposite. I do agree however, that years in the saddle, and the skill development that comes with that, minimizes the problems the OP describes. My personal choice is to paddle a boat that is highly maneuverable. My first sea kayak (purchased 3 years ago) did not have that quality and I lasted about a month with it and got rid of it in favor of a much more maneuverable boat. I was frustrated by the fact that my first boat took huge effort to do a simple eddy turn - frankly, no matter how much effort I applied it was extremely sluggish in this regard. Also, I think that paddling a maneuverable boat regularly forced me to develop my skills quickly. I enjoy it much more than I did my first Kayak. There are very fine kayaks available across the spectrum of maneuverable v straight ahead tracking to meet anyone's personal preferences, skill level, etc.
Posted by: old_user on Aug-04-13 5:59 PM (EST)
I imagine to some extent you are correct. If I paddled it a lot more and had more experience the drifting would have probably waned, at least to some extent. I paddle on pretty flat lakes and creeks and about 95% of the time go in a straight line so using the Legend was somewhat frustrating to me. I sold it, for various reasons, but I think the lesson learned is no more hard chimed boats. I just want something that goes straight. ha
For what its worth - |
Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-04-13 7:41 PM (EST)
hard chines may not be the big issue. My boat does not have hard chines but it is still very maneuverable. I have a WS Zephyr.
there's no problem here|
Posted by: jesse59 on Aug-04-13 2:36 PM (EST)
Every boat does this. The last stroke you take creates spin momentum. When you stop paddling you start spinning, no matter waht kind of boat you're in.
Posted by: old_user on Aug-04-13 6:01 PM (EST)
That's a true statement, but the extent of turning I was noticing was not simply due to my last stroke. I'd glide straight for a while until I would relax and then I would just go where ever.
Besides the other advice|
Posted by: Ayornamut on Aug-04-13 4:31 PM (EST)
It's "CHINE", not "chime"...|
Posted by: BNystrom on Aug-05-13 6:33 AM (EST)
...and no, it's not the problem. If you actually had CHIMES on your kayak, that could be a problem.
thread title brings this to mind|
Posted by: puffingin on Aug-05-13 8:03 AM (EST)
Not trying tease OP but title in advice section just brings this song to mind and uTube has this silly version that made me laugh further:
extra credit for pronouncing it right|
Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-05-13 1:49 PM (EST)
(not directed to you Brian)
Considerations for the next boat|
Posted by: Celia on Aug-05-13 7:20 AM (EST)
If you expect to find a hull that behaves better based only on the lack of hard chines you could find yourself in the same situation all over again.
so hard chines don't|
Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-05-13 8:35 AM (EST)
ring your chimes. lol, (JK OP).
Do some testing.|
Posted by: magooch on Aug-05-13 10:19 AM (EST)
If you're looking for a boat that truly tracks and glides like it's on rails, check these (nckayaks.com). However, be prepared to learn some maneuvering techniques that might not be required with looser designs. These techniques are nothing new, but when you get used to using them, you're boat handling skills will have taken a giant step forward.
Posted by: rpg51 on Aug-05-13 6:25 PM (EST)
"I absolutely disagree that a good handling boat has to have a lot of rocker, or that they naturally have to tip from one side to the other unless you load them up."
Chines aren't the problem |
Posted by: dong on Aug-05-13 10:02 PM (EST)
Some kayaks track very well and others are more maneuverable. This has nothing to due with chines or no chines. Hard tracking kayaks are easier for an inexperienced paddler to use and a maneuverable kayak may be much more rewarding for an experienced paddler to use. A maneuverable kayak will allow an inexperienced paddle to gain new skills and technique. Only you will know what works best for your interest, but don't think that chines effect tracking or maneuverability.
I agree - not really the chines|
Posted by: rival51 on Aug-05-13 11:03 PM (EST)
although a hard chined boat will likely react to a lesser edge that one with a softer chine. I paddle a high volume hard chined boat - Pygmy Arctic Tern. I has a lot of initial stability and tracks well when kept flat. I have to deliberately put it on edge. When I do though, it doesn't take much edge to initiate the turn. I would not be surprised to learn that the Legend had lower initial stability and a subtle weight shift was engaging an edge without you noticing.
Posted by: Ayornamut on Aug-06-13 9:26 AM (EST)
Posted by: somalley on Aug-06-13 10:34 AM (EST)
If you are having issues with chimes, you might want to look up Christine Lavin ;)
Thanks for suggestion|
Posted by: puffingin on Aug-07-13 9:42 AM (EST)
Found this when I googled her and it really made me laugh.
Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-06-13 10:49 AM (EST)
so many have chimed in on this question.
such charming chimes|
Posted by: thegoose on Aug-07-13 9:53 AM (EST)
Posted by: Fadedred on Aug-07-13 11:55 AM (EST)