Dagger Axis 12.0 vs LL Remix 10
Posted by: old_user on Jul-19-13 11:26 AM (EST) Category: Kayaks
I am close to buying my first boat. My main question is will the length of the 12.0 Axis ($799) make is track better and be faster than a LL Remix 10 ($999)?
My other 2 choices are if I decide to get a touring type boat. I found a Prijon Yukon Expedition used for $600 and a Delta 12.10 for $1200.
I've done a lot of research and many of you have helped me out so thanks. That being said I am still confused!! Help.
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- Dagger Axis 12.0 vs LL Remix 10 - old_user - Jul-19-13 11:26 AM
Posted by: djo on Jul-19-13 2:01 PM (EST)
I have never been in an Axis, but I have it the Remix. I imagine they are similar - atleast they are build for similar markets. The Remix is a whitewater boat and as such tracks very poorly. The skeg helps some but only some. Compared to your average 14 ft rec boat it is very slow and tracks poorly. It is a very good whitewater boat that has a skeg that makes it a little less bad on flat river stretches. The Remix (and likely the Axis) is a great choice if this is what you are looking for. I suspect from you post you may be looking for something a bit different.
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djo, the skeg will not make up for lack |
Posted by: ezwater on Jul-20-13 4:27 PM (EST)
of proper paddling technique. If the skeg on your XP10 isn't helping enough, you need to find a kayak instructor in your area.
The trick is "cab forward", high angle paddling. A good forward reach, a firm catch, and get the paddle blade out before it passes your butt.
You will feel like your strokes are pulling the boat forward by the nose.
Don't imitate low angle sea kayak and rec kayak paddlers. Their technique will never work for kayaks designed for some whitewater use.
I have not seen Dagger's latest crossover efforts, but Liquid Logic has had it all over them up until recently.
If you can't or won't do what I say, ditch the crossover kayak concept and get a pure touring kayak.
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Own Both Now|
Posted by: ShadyClip on Jul-21-13 1:37 AM (EST)
I have had a Dagger Axis 12 now for a few years -- I think replied to some of your previous questions on here.
I just recently bought a Remix XP 10 a week ago -- $800 was hard to pass up. I have zero butt time in mine yet -- heat and too busy with work. I have tried out someone elses XP a bit, which had it on my shortlist, but my time in the kayak is pretty low right now.
I didn't have problems with the tracking in the XP10 and it is better with the skeg down. But the Axis probably is easier keeping straight. I probably keep the skeg up more than putting it down in my Axis.
The XP has a rounded bow and stern so you do getting it pushing water if you try to go fast. The Axis will push water as well but it is not as bad as the XP. From what I have seen the Axis really is more a flatwater kayak of the two but the XP isn't bad. I wouldn't do 8 hours on a lake or flat river in the XP as my first choice. I have done that many times in my Axis.
The Axis is good in moving water and the lower level rapids but I have had trouble getting hung up on rocks due to the hull design. Also in whitewater you more just run straight through the rapids. I also like to explore shallow streams -- the XP is probably better for this being a bit shorter and a shallower draft. I have added thigh braces and hip pads to my Axis.
The XP is a lot tougher in construction. The outfitting is really nice but I am still tweaking it to fit me right. The Axis seat is great out of the box for comfort -- I still like more back support and the thigh raisers really help me. It is a rec seat so more for comfort than good paddling performance position. Of course that performance position isn't the most comfortable for everyone and may require toughing up to the pain or custom fitting the cockpit for you, which is what I am doing with my XP now.
I bought the XP for whitewater but where I am whitewater always comes with sections of flat paddling and we don't have lot of tough whitewater.
It is probably easier to take a flat water longer kayak through easy whitewater rapids -- you just go straight and turn to avoid getting stuck -- then it is to have a whitewater kayak do long periods of flatwater.
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