Solo reentry balance question
Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-07-13 12:07 PM (EST) Category: unassigned
-- Last Updated: Jul-07-13 12:23 PM EST --
I was practicing solo reentry with a paddle float today. I noticed that the "tippiest" moment was when I was face down in the cockpit with both legs in the cockpit and about to turn over. I think the reason is that too much body weight is right in the center of the cockpit, with a high center of gravity.
Is it easier to keep your balance if you put in one leg, turn over, and insert the other leg last? I was thinking that that would allow me to keep my legs father apart for more balance. This wouldn't work with a smaller cockpit. Mine is 35" long.
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|Messages in this Topic|
What I Did|
Posted by: Kudzu on Jul-07-13 1:15 PM (EST)
Before I learned to roll I did this pretty successfully:
Posted by: rjd9999 on Jul-07-13 1:35 PM (EST)
Posted by: carldelo on Jul-07-13 3:28 PM (EST)
It is less tippy.........|
Posted by: blackboat on Jul-07-13 1:36 PM (EST)
.......if you keep your gaze on the paddle float as you rotate to the butt in the seat position.
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jul-07-13 2:05 PM (EST)
you can easily put both feet in before turning. But make sure the way you turn and do anything else is such that you never take your eyes off the paddle float for even a second. This ensures you are constantly putting a bit more weight on the float side.
Posted by: LeeG on Jul-07-13 3:06 PM (EST)
If you lift your weight up off the back deck as opposed to pressing your weight into the deck/coaming while transferring your weight on the paddle shaft from one hand to another while rolling over.
It is not tippy at all if you just keep.|
Posted by: JackL on Jul-07-13 3:18 PM (EST)
leaning on the paddle float side as you roll over.
Posted by: LeeG on Jul-08-13 10:12 AM (EST)
And keep your weight pressed into the kayak. The problem is weight shifting around all over the place.
I wonder if there are as many |
Posted by: g2d on Jul-07-13 3:33 PM (EST)
successful paddle float re-entries, under battle conditions, not practicing, per year, as there are instances where a kayaker is struck by lightning?
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jul-07-13 3:43 PM (EST)
I personally don't think the paddle float re-entry is really a "battle condition" sort of rescue though I'm sure with enough practice it could be a tool (e.g. if you are injured). More commonly someone may have had an isolated boat wake or maybe did a poor job reaching for something and flipped in otherwise benign conditions. This is the sort of "battle" that is more likely for someone not well skilled at rolling, cowboy and re-entry and roll rescues. So it does have it's value for the right people in conditions suitable for those people.
If you think you're likely to find |
Posted by: g2d on Jul-07-13 3:54 PM (EST)
yourself out of your kayak, in spite of having to roll properly, AND if you think reboarding promptly is an issue, why not take a lesson from the Tsunami Rangers?
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jul-07-13 4:01 PM (EST)
as we are now talking more skilled kayakers, there are very many including the Rangers that take closed deck boats both short and long into extremely rough waters with 5+' rock pour overs, reflections etc. and manage self rescues. They do often have to swim a bit to get out of the extreme danger part but still execute the self rescues in very rough conditions.
Not a beginner in calm water|
Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-07-13 6:38 PM (EST)
That's exactly why I posted this question, because I was thinking that if I'm tippy in calm water I will be in trouble in rough water. It sounds like the answer to my question is to keep some weight on the paddle float until I'm completely turned around in the seat. I realize now that I wasn't doing that, I was balancing in the center.
if you can, find a group for practice|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jul-07-13 7:00 PM (EST)
Whether beginner or expert, as you take a step up in conditions you really want a good group to play and practice with. And you don't want to take it up a notch until you can handle the rescues in calmer conditions quick and easy. Any time our group would happen to find weather that was enough to challenge us we would stay closer to some safety and have fun seeing all the rescues and such we can do in those conditions. With a good group even if no others are experts you can (hopefully) rely on a good assisted rescue if you fail your self rescue attempt. After a few such sessions that becomes the new normal for us. Compared to others we may know we're all beginners and we're all fairly skilled -- it's all relative.
Posted by: LeeG on Jul-08-13 10:10 AM (EST)
The conditions that dump you will probably prevent a self rescue unless you drift to gentler conditions. I've done paddle float rescues in 4' waves, it actually works, I've also attempted pf rescue in 2' breaking waves and it's not possible. By the boats nature one is in control when in the kayak, so the goal should be staying in the kayak. Learn to roll, get better at bracing, etc.
great last paragraph^|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-08-13 4:58 PM (EST)
paddle float rescue|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-08-13 9:56 AM (EST)
Is another tool in the toolbox. What you describe is undue reliance on the rescue. If you open your mind a bit you'd see the move is useful on it's own, with variation,or in combination with other approaches.
Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-07-13 6:41 PM (EST)
Posted by: rjd9999 on Jul-08-13 11:12 AM (EST)
work as you intend.
What they said and...|
Posted by: Celia on Jul-07-13 9:22 PM (EST)
Given that it takes great accuracy |
Posted by: g2d on Jul-07-13 11:09 PM (EST)
and sinuosity to get my big feet and huge frame into a typical 35" cockpit, I think my odds of doing so out on a wavy ocean, using a paddle float, are just about zilch.
rough conditions vs a rough moment|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jul-07-13 11:45 PM (EST)
For me in rough conditions I go with either a cowboy (takes lots of practice but doable in wind waves up to a few feet or more) or a re-enter and roll (doable most anytime I could roll otherwise). I've used both in surf zone and rock gardening. Cowboy leaves you drier but re-enter and roll takes less energy and is more reliable (assuming a good roll). Even if you first failed a roll the re-enter and roll is good as the roll may have failed due to a moment of mental overload from a big wave and you can re-orient the boat prior to re-enter and roll to favor success.
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-08-13 9:58 AM (EST)
In short, not everyone gets dumped by tsunami ranger conditions. Not even everyone with giant feet.
one vote for the cowboy reentry|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-08-13 9:59 AM (EST)
...if it works for you. If you can mount your deck from the water, the rest is relatively easy.
re-enter roll with float|
Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-08-13 11:38 AM (EST)
Under waves up to 2 foot or so cowboy scramble is fine but if its really wavy 4 footer I found paddle float attached to my greenland paddle then re-enter and roll. You CANT miss a roll with a big paddle float attached. If you cant do it that way you shouldn't be out there in those conditions EVER. The tricky part is holding onto paddle with float attached and re-entering. With a greenland paddle I find it easy, not sure I could do that with a regular paddle.
of course the R&R is better|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-08-13 4:57 PM (EST)
Once you learn that you likely never go back to the cowboy reentry. But between cowboy and paddle float reentry I'll take the former any day.
Heel Hook variation|
Posted by: fixedgearflyer on Jul-08-13 1:51 PM (EST)
The link below will take you to a video of a heel hook variation on the paddle float reentry. It requires significantly less strength and balance than a normal, rear deck paddle float reentry, and you get your bottom back in the seat very quickly.
Excellent video, thanks!|
Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-08-13 6:10 PM (EST)
I will definitely try this.
Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-08-13 11:49 PM (EST)
Thats one of the better videos out there. Thats exactly how I do mine. Thanks for the link.