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  Packing kayak and weight
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jun-29-13 5:01 PM (EST)
   Category: Kayaks 

Ok going on a kayak camping trip my first ever. Going with a group to Georgian Bay in Canada. Using my NDK Greenlander Pro. I tried test packing the kayak today. Almost everything fit inside except the Thermarest Sleeping pad which I attached on rear deck. Total gear weight was about 40 pounds. I weighed what I put into each hatch.

Rear hatch including sleeping pad on rear deck was 19 pounds.

Day hatch 9 pounds

Front hatch 12 pounds
I weigh 167 lbs

I havent yet test paddled loaded but will do so long before trip. Now what I haven't included in that weight was water that I will put into deck bag on front deck plus a one liter collapsible bottle in day hatch. I will be filtering water as I go. I have filter located in day hatch. I figure at lunch I can filter to refill water. I will either use three 20 ounce bottles in deck bag or one camel back 50 ounce bladder plus have the one liter in day hatch which depending on conditions might not want to access. Using Platypus Gravity fed water filter.

So as far as weight distribution does that sound ok? Never paddled before loaded like this but I will test paddle fully loaded before trip but thought I would see what others thought before I go out for a trial run.Might need more water maybe another 20 ouncer.

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Messages in this Topic

 

  Loaded boat
  Posted by: RavenWing on Jun-29-13 6:04 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jun-29-13 6:13 PM EST --

I can see you're going about this very methodically & commend you for that.

Pardon the length. Your description spurred some questions.

How long are you going to be out?

Are you splitting food/water/cook stuff with someone else or are you each totally self sufficient?

Re weight distribution or trim: without knowing the total of everything going in each bulkhead it's hard to comment specifically.

You are shooting for the heaviest gear to be just behind the cockpit.

If you have a compass you want no interference from things packed up front that contain magnet attracting metals (stainless steel and brass are OK)

As for the water: 60 oz of water is very nearly a gallon, and a gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. Factor that into the total lbs up front.

Not a big fan of deck bags. They create more wind resistance & more work for you. I respect your preferences - just something to think about.

While you're test paddling flip the boat over and try a solo rescue (whichever ones you favor) Make sure the thermorest on the rear deck doesn't impede that. Make sure you can flip the loaded boat over or at least on its side while you float in the water to simulate a deep water rescue.

Since you have a roll try to roll the boat fully loaded. It'll feel different. It'll likely come around much more slowly.

If you have a friend to help - capsize and try a T rescue, see if your friend can pull your loaded boat up on theirs (near the cockpit of friend's boat) and empty it, then proceed to do the rest of the rescue. It can be challenging. The time to find out how challenging is now.

As a member of a tripping group (or someone paddling solo) I like to keep the aft deck absolutely clear - easier for me if I'm vaulting up, and also easier if we have a swimmer and they need to clamber onto the aft deck to get them away from trouble while we work out how to get them back in their boat.

Imo you really want the thermorest pad inside the kayak for another reason - do you really want to bring a wet (even soaking wet depending on waves) sleeping pad into your tent underneath your sleeping bag?There are alternative pads out there that compress down to the size of a Nalgene bottle (Big Agnes makes one). If you really love and must have the T'rest pad with you, you likely will have to give up some thing(s).

If you have a thermorest pad on the aft deck, and a deck bag on the foredeck, where is your spare paddle going? Have you worked that in as well?

Incredibly beautiful area to camp and paddle in. A memorable first trip awaits you.

 
 
  Answers
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jun-29-13 6:56 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jun-29-13 7:05 PM EST --

I can see you're going about this very methodically & commend you for that.

Pardon the length. Your description spurred some questions.

How long are you going to be out?

Answer: On water saturday around 11am out of water Monday by about 6pm.

Are you splitting food/water/cook stuff with someone else or are you each totally self sufficient?

Answer. Iam totaly self sufficient

Re weight distribution or trim: without knowing the total of everything going in each bulkhead it's hard to comment specifically.

You are shooting for the heaviest gear to be just behind the cockpit.
Answer: Yes trying to put heaviest stuff in back hence the rear hatch has 19 pounds and day hatch has 8 pounds. Plus I will keep 1 liter bottle of water in day hatch and only 50 or 60 ounces in deck bag.

If you have a compass you want no interference from things packed up front that contain magnet attracting metals (stainless steel and brass are OK)

Answer: no compass but also no metal up front.

As for the water: 60 oz of water is very nearly a gallon, and a gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. Factor that into the total lbs up front.

Answer: Could put up a little less water in deck bag say two bottle at 20 ounce each BUT a galolon is 128 ounces. So even at 60 ounces of water its about 4 pounds.

Not a big fan of deck bags. They create more wind resistance & more work for you. I respect your preferences - just something to think about.

Answer: Deck bag is a Seals Contoured Deck Bag which is not a big deck bag as I own a big one too. Here is picture I just grabbed off web. http://www.dc9mm.x10.mx/bag.jpg

While you're test paddling flip the boat over and try a solo rescue (whichever ones you favor) Make sure the thermorest on the rear deck doesn't impede that. Make sure you can flip the loaded boat over or at least on its side while you float in the water to simulate a deep water rescue.

Since you have a roll try to roll the boat fully loaded. It'll feel different. It'll likely come around much more slowly.

Answer: Yes I plan to try cowboy scramble and paddle float self rescue along with re-enter and roll and re-enter and roll with paddle float attached (my most bullet proof rescue). I use greenland paddles with storm paddle. Also will try some rolls. Iam pretty good at just sculling my way back up from upside down too. My spare storm paddle goes on front deck with deck bag in place. Also have built in electric Bilge pump I made and posted a thread here about it. Will have manual hand pump too. Also carry VHF and PLB, safety is number one with me.

If you have a friend to help - capsize and try a T rescue, see if your friend can pull your loaded boat up on theirs (near the cockpit of friend's boat) and empty it, then proceed to do the rest of the rescue. It can be challenging. The time to find out how challenging is now.

As a member of a tripping group (or someone paddling solo) I like to keep the aft deck absolutely clear - easier for me if I'm vaulting up, and also easier if we have a swimmer and they need to clamber onto the aft deck to get them away from trouble while we work out how to get them back in their boat.

Imo you really want the thermorest pad inside the kayak for another reason - do you really want to bring a wet (even soaking wet depending on waves) sleeping pad into your tent underneath your sleeping bag?There are alternative pads out there that compress down to the size of a Nalgene bottle (Big Agnes makes one). If you really love and must have the T'rest pad with you, you likely will have to give up some thing(s).

If you have a thermorest pad on the aft deck, and a deck bag on the foredeck, where is your spare paddle going? Have you worked that in as well?

Answer: Well I really like the thermarest pad. Plus even if it does get wet I think it would dry off quickly. Plus iam using Outdoor Research Double Roll dry bag for Pad. Best drybag I have tested. Hold under water for 10 minutes water gets past first roll but non past second roll into main compartment, plus I have found if I put a little cloth in between first and second roll it holds water out even longer completly under water.Had it under water 1 whole hour in bathtub and only a few drops got into main compartment. Cant imagine it being exposed to more than that. If so I lost the kayak for sure and iam floating alone. I can take garden hose at spray heck out of it zero water gets in.

Incredibly beautiful area to camp and paddle in. A memorable first trip awaits you.

 
 
  among other things
  Posted by: RavenWing on Jun-29-13 7:14 PM (EST)
my math conversions clearly need work lol

to be totally self sufficient (commendable) you need your own compass and charts. If you get separated from your pack you'll want them.

Looks like a fine deck bag but to me a deck bag of whatever shape is less aerodynamic than a clear deck.

I'd still think once then twice about any of my sleeping gear being outside the boat and exposed to the wet.

The GPro is 17'8" and not esp. low volume compared to other Greenland styles.

You will be out for less than 3 days.

I have packed for 5 days' kayak camping on Lake Ontario and again on Lake Superior (100% self sufficient as you are including food and water, w. ability to boil/filter water as you will be doing) in a sea kayak that is 16 feet and even lower volume (think Valley Avocet LV and CD Suka) And still had roughly one cubic foot avail. No deck bag and -0- on deck but spare paddle, compass and charts.

Sure you can't fit everything *in* your boat? Asking not arguing. In the end, you are the captain of your ship.



 
 
  Water
  Posted by: seadart on Jun-29-13 7:15 PM (EST)
It's a good idea to pack the water low in the boat, a good place is right behind the seat. I don't like the idea of a large amount of water tied to the front deck. --- you want your boat slightly tail heavy so think about that when packing heavy weight up front.
 
 
  Rethinking
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jun-29-13 11:53 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jun-29-13 11:56 PM EST --

Rethinking about water. Maybe just keep it all in day hatch except one 20 ounce bottle in deck bag.

Oh I do have a GPS loaded with both topo Canada and Bluecharts. Me with a compass and a map wont do well. Plus those charts are pricey and group leader has them. Sure GPS can fail and if I was alone I would have two GPS's for that very reason.

Reason Iam having trouble is darn sleeping bag I have is too big. NDK kayaks have the darn small hatch openings so I cant fold the bag over once and roll as it wont go through hatch so I left it unfolded and rolled so its long and less wide but still about 6 inchs and about 30 inchs long. Its taking up alot of space in front hatch. Plus its double dry bagged.(dont want wet sleeping bag). I think I will have to buy a new smaller sleeping bag. BUT this means I would put Thermrest Pad up front rather than on back deck which might be more of a problem than keeping it on back deck. Rear hatch has tent and food, stove and cookware some clothes. Rear hatch has skeg in there which sucks up rear hatch space too. Its a pretty low rear deck. As example I can get more into rear hatch of my 14 foot Wilderness Systems tsunami 140. But way more space up front on NDK.

Maybe I can get the Thermarest pad and food and tent in back but not so sure. I will try that this Sunday. I have food all in one bag so if I split it up and just leave freeze dried stuff (Mountain House) in no bag since its in a sealed pouch anyway and slide it past skeg box then I think it would work. I have food inside a Ursack Bear bag which makes it easy to grab and have all my food in one bag ready for campsite. The food is mostly freeze dried which I guess I can just remove from bear bag and just slide that way into back of kayak past skeg . Keep the peanuts and cliff bars still in bear bag but that will make it much smaller. Just as side note bear bag has Opsak odor proof bag inside that plus I used a small Opsak to hold the peanuts I have, there no shells just roasted planters. lots of energy and I like peanuts. Cliff bars are mainly in case we get stuck on Island for extra day or two because of heavy winds which from the trip blogs I have read does happen.

Thanks for the advice I will do my best to get it all inside BUT for sure a new sleeping bag would be required.

 
 
  A packing trick
  Posted by: mjamja on Jul-01-13 9:59 PM (EST)
you might want to try is to stuff the sleeping bag or the tent into a drybag (or stuff sack) that is already inside the hatch. Simply put as much into the bag or stuff sack as you can and still put it in through the hatch. Then stuff the rest into the bag and close it inside the hatch. Often this gives you a much shorter and wider bundle than will go through the hatch if it was a solid mass on the outside.

I once had a cookset that would not go through the hatch. Finally dawned on me that if I took off the top, the bottom would fit through. Then the top could be flexed just enough to go through the hatch and reattached to seal everything together.

Good luck.

Mark
 
 
  Low-volume kayak, I guess?
  Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-01-13 3:43 PM (EST)
I've never even thought to weigh things for kayak camping. As a backpacker my weight is about 35 lbs. Kayaking easily allows far more weight and volume than backpacking.

For Georgian Bay I would not have a sleeping pad on the deck. I did that once and noticed a loss of control in the wind. In general I would say that self-inflating pads aren't the best choice for kayak camping. For that you want an air mattress, like the Exped Synmat, which is quite luxurious yet packs very small (by kayaking standards).

Which Thermarest are you using? Which tent and sleeping bag?



 
 
  Why are you carrying so much water?
  Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-01-13 4:15 PM (EST)
Georgian Bay water is perfectly fine to filter. Two quart nalgenes ought to do you or one dromedary. We pack our Expeds in the back and two fit against the bulkead. Each is about a liter size. I suspect you have a really big thick Thermy ( there are lots of models.) Yes you do have to work on that bag.. Again we have OR compression drybags that allow a bag to fit in an eight inch Valley hatch.

Georgian Bay is a nice place to kayak.. been there many times. You might consider bear spray. Not necessarily on the water but there have been incidents in the French River Delta.

The real challenge is packing kayaks for a ten day trip to the Everglades with water. That bleeping little front hatch was a pain. Water bottle all fit but made the bow heavy.

We will be out on Superior for 19 days and currently looking at a mound of freeze dried and dehydrated food in our family room. Fortunately I have a Mad River Monarch since the Shenai doesn't have that much volume. As far as your tent..consider packing tent and poles separately.

Compression dry bags are really your friend. They are pricey...but they have made many a trip more maneagble for us.
 
 
  Good advice
  Posted by: Jeffrey_lee on Jul-01-13 8:32 PM (EST)
Others here have already provided good advice.

40 lbs. is pretty light—I wish I could trim MY kit down that far! Too much beer and Scotch I guess ...

Having kayaked Georgian Bay, I'll echo the point regarding filtering water. It's very clean water up there and can easily be filtered as you go, requiring you to carry less water.

I esp. don't like the idea of carrying something as heavy as water (or even the self-inflating sleeping pad) on the decks, mostly for the poor balance. We usually carry only a day's worth (~4 liters), laid flat on the bottom of the stern compartment, directly behind the bulkhead; this keeps it low and near the boat's center-of-gravity.

As someone else mentioned, the inflatable pads offer a good compromise between weight and bulk:
http://superiorpaddling.com/product-review-big-agnes-sleeping-pad/

Here's more info about packing for camping:
http://superiorpaddling.com/packing-a-kayak-for-camping/

Whereabouts in Georgian Bay are you going?

Jeffrey Lee
http://www.SuperiorPaddling.com
 
 
  Ok what I have changed
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-01-13 11:17 PM (EST)
I bought a new sleeping bag. Its only 6 inch by 12. Rated for 40F which is plenty for July. With that change I can put the Thermarest pad into the rear hatch and move a few things to the front hatch since I now have WAY more room up there. Mostly very light stuff up front..

Now iam not carrying that much water. I can easily drink that much in a few hours. 60 ounces isn't much.2 liter is about 66 ounces. You guys in summer paddling hard don't drink 2 liters a day, really? Now I can cut it to say 40 ounces and filter water at lunch which is what I most likely will do. But even for short day paddles I always take two 20 ounce bottles.

Bears, yes dont like the thought of bears. I was just going to get a small airhorn to hopefully scare away any bears plus maybe someone else in the group will have some bear spray. Bear Bangers are popular in Canada. But you cant buy them in the USA.

Were going from Hartley Marina down French River to either Old Voyaguer or Voyaguer channel into bay then to killarny.About 45 miles. Yes iam aware of rapids on Old Voyaguer and needing to portage around that.Iam not leading so not sure which way the others want to go. I will mostly likely try test paddling my setup this coming weekend. It will be interesting to see how she rolls. Just for heck of it I will try it with Thermarest on rear deck. Keep in mind the Thermarest is very light. Its the Trail Pro large at 2 pounds 12 ounces so less than 3 pounds. If wind catches it drop skeg a little. But I can now keep it in the rear hatch but curious how it behaves with it out on deck.
 
 
  Packing
  Posted by: emanoh on Jul-02-13 8:28 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jul-02-13 8:41 AM EST --

I also have a NDK greenlander pro and I can easily roll and pack my thermarest in the tail beside the skeg box. Are you rolling it and squeezing out most of the air? Tent poles and a couple of misc. other items go on the other side of the skeg box. I have a full size thermarest.

I also agree with comments about not packing so much water, I've pumped out of Georgian Bay many times. Carry enough to get you through the day and then pump at camp. On longer trips I also use carbiners and strap a hydration pack to the back of my pfd. You don't even notice it's there.

Front to back in the GLP, my camp pillows and sleeping bags go in the nose. various clothing bags and and gear follow. I did find that even the foil tuna bags will throw off my compass so food goes in rear hatch.

Day hatch: More food (usually lunch), camp stove, water filter, nalogen water bottle, hammock and misc. camp items. Usually what I forgot to put in another hatch goes in the day hatch. I also usually have a small bottle behind my seat for quick access.

Rear hatch, Tent goes horizontal up against the bulkhead. and then remaining clothing and food bags.

Only thing on deck is a spare paddle, my chart case and pump.

I was suprised at how much you can stuff into the GLP. It has less volume than my older touring boat, but I picked up a 1.5' in length to make up for it. Oh and I also weigh 205lbs.

 
 
  packing
  Posted by: amf on Jul-02-13 9:05 AM (EST)
Having packed a Romany for four nights in Maine, there's no reason you can't pack a Greenlander. Rethink the thermarest. You may need to buy one of the lightweight ones - they easily fit inside a hatch, and you want it inside. Leave the water, or only carry what you need for a day. You're on freshwater, and its clean. I'm heading up there too... I'll keep an eye out for a Greenlander on that little pond...

ps - be careful if you roll... I have a tendency to keep on going with a loaded boat after I come up, and have to roll again! I was hesitant to roll at first with a full load, and was amazed how easy it was.
 
 
  Packing ibn an NDK boat
  Posted by: Celia on Jul-02-13 9:56 AM (EST)
The 10 inch rounds do alter things that work in other boats. I found that when I went to an NDK boat from a boat that had one oval hatch.

So - use lots of smaller dry bags and throw a canvas bag on top to put all the little bags into to carry to the camp site. Get stuff sacks for all the soft goods - sleeping bag, tent if possible. Break up the bigger nested cook kit into two parts, or better yet just bring the smaller inside pieces. If you don't have one of those remarkably tiny camp stoves, get one. Tent poles go in separately from the tent. Go with a good ground cover (I think they are often called footprints) for the tent, and that will let you use a smaller thermarest pad without having totally chilly and wet feet in the morning.

If you can filter water that will help a lot.

It is surprising how much space you can get with the above techniques.

Now, back to the compass thing. I personally agree with others above that having and being able to use a chart and compass is not at all optional for a trip like this. No matter that someone else has the stuff - every paddler in the group should be able to manage at least basic how-to-get-to-land navigation. And in certain conditions, say thick fog, it is not possible without a functioning compass. Also - colder water and air temps tend to take out battery life much faster than when you are getting used to the device in your living room. We spend part of each summer in Maine, in water that is not as chilly and damp as Georgian Bay can get (except the last few days....), and battery life is probably half of what we get at home.

It doesn't take a huge investment. I am talking a strap-on compass or even a hand held compass with a decent size readout, and nosing around on the internet for charts you can print out. Then laminate them or get a chart case. You already know where you are going, so you should be able to find ones well-tailored to your needs.

I didn't catch it above - are you carrying a spare paddle?
 
 
  The rapids are not a big deal
  Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-02-13 10:45 AM (EST)
if GB is low there may be an ugly portage. Two years ago there was at Lily Chutes.

Your Thermarest is far from light. Your sleeping bag is also on the sketchy side. You probably will want a liner for that 40 degree bag. I take a 40 degree bag too but out on the Bustards I have always used the liner with it.
 
 
  Ok
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-02-13 12:17 PM (EST)
I do have a compass but only know very basic navigation with it. Plenty of batteries for GPS.Paddling mostly along shore line. I will also be carrying a VHF on PFD along with a PLB (personal Locator Beacon, FastFind 220) on PFD as well.

Yes I have a spare Storm paddle. I use greenland paddles

40 fluid ounces of water isn't allot of water by any means. Easily drink twice that amount for an 8 hour paddle. Heck three times that.

40F sleeping bag is plenty for me. I sleep HOT iam like a heat pump. I have a Frogg Toggs as iam more worried about being to hot to sleep not the other way around. Keep thermostat at home in winter at 65F and like it that way.

Sleeping pad is Trail Pro, 2 inch thick one, no way i wanted one of the light weight thin ones. My understanding is its mostly rock I will be sleeping on. It fits in rear hatch, it always did but before i replaced cheap Coleman sleeping bag I needed the space in rear hatch NOW I don't.So it will be in rear hatch.Another guy who has paddle this area kept his pad on back and said he had no problems BUT again mine will now go in rear hatch.

Tent is a Kelty Grand Mesa 2 two person tent and I bought the Kelty footer for it.Its in rear hatch as well with poles but poles are not in drybag with it.

Water filter is Platypus gravity feed.

I have used the deck bag many times with zero bad effects in heavy winds 30 mph. Its the smaller deck bag look at picture I posted link to of it in one of my early posts.

Thanks for the advice from all.
 
 
  all rock
  Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-02-13 12:27 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jul-02-13 2:16 PM EST --

You might consider looking into the Exped mats after you use your heavy bulky Thermarest. The former are thicker and pack smaller.

The bay is pretty cold at night. I hear you about being a hot sleeper. We keep our house at 64 day and 55 night. But GB is still cool and clammy. You can open a too hot sleeping bag. Its hard to make a too cold bag warmer.

I carry 2 liters of fluid with me.. no more on fresh water.

Most of your route is quite protected and potentially quite busy.

I hope you get to see a fierce storm.. Its quite impressive..from the safety of a campsite of course.

Your GPS is most likely to be lying. The topography of the Bay changes drastically with water level so what you see most likely will only correspond in a most general sense with what is on the screen of the GPS. GPS of course is a handy tool for the fog. You wont need it for the first 25 miles.

I think that the equipment you have is fine. But you may want to change some things on your second trip back to Georgian Bay. The Bay gets back to you.. While it is not terribly demanding most of the time, it can kick up.. It sounds like heresy but you can do that trip practically with no map. I do suggest you get one though. Chrismar has a neat map for the area

http://www.friendsofkillarneyparkstore.com/Phillip-Edward-Island-Map-p/04.htm

Also French River PP has a map that is available at Hartley Bay.

Just follow the shoreline and observe what you see and correlate on your map. Maps give you a great overall picture. GPS does the detail.. You will see how water levels can affect what you see.

 
 
  Basic Navigation
  Posted by: Celia on Jul-02-13 1:31 PM (EST)
Basic navigation skills that can be plenty for emergency purposes. For example in the midcoast region of Maine all you have to be able to do is paddle north - hang the fancy chart work - and you will eventually bump into land. Then all that is left is to figure out which land - but at least you are dry.

It is one thing to rely primarily on navigation via electronics. It is quite another to find yourself in a lurch because the few hundred dollars worth of electronics failed and you aren't carrying a $20 strap on or $10 pocket compass.

Electronics that are totally reliable anywhere else get funky around cold salt water. I needlessly replaced two cell phone batteries before I found that the old ones held a charge just fine once we got inland again. And each laptop we bring to the coast will inexplicably lose some function that worked fine at home and will again upon our return.
 
 
  a few more
  Posted by: suiram on Jul-02-13 2:01 PM (EST)
I see that you are paddling with a group.
Redundancy is a good thing, but it does lead to some inefficiencies.

Water Filtration - water filters/pumps can definitely be shared. Perhaps you could ask around and see what other folks are bringing? Gravity driven filtration is nice to have since filtering is almost effortless, it does require a bit of time and differential of elevation - could be a bit issue if trying to resupply over lunch break on one of those flat GB islands.

I notice that you intend to put water bladder on the deck - this tends to reduce stability of a kayak. Unless fastened very securely it also tends to flop when kayak edges. Folks sometimes like to store extra water bladders behind the seat.

I didn't see anything about custom bulkheads on this boat - if you have space in front of footpegs it can be used to store some items, in a dry bag perhaps. It does present some entrapment and loss of gear issues, but I am quite sure you could figure out ways to manage.

Apologies if I suggested something that has already been suggested

 
 
  Not sure yet on water
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-02-13 3:45 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jul-02-13 3:48 PM EST --

I have two camel back water bladders one is 50 fluid ounce other I think is around 100 fluid ounces. Never used the camel backs for paddling. Not sure if it would just be better to use plastic bottles. I have two 1 liter collapsible bottles. Plus a few hard type plastic bottles. Never had ANY problem with two 20 fluid ounce bottles in deck bag. Lean kayak right over on side while sculling to get wet to cool off.I could try wearing a camel back on the outside of PFD. But thinking I will just use bottles. I just want enough water during paddling. The Platypus gravity filter is fast. Does 1.75 liters per minute.

Should test paddle fully loaded this weekend at local beach. Since I only adding about 50 pounds not thinking it will be that big a deal.

Just checked weather dot com for Killarney and for next ten days low temp at night are all above 60F so having a 40F sleeping bag seems like plenty to me.

No custom bulkheads so there is space in front of footpegs but since I got rid of LARGE sleeping bag I have plenty of room now in hatches. Old bag was taking up about three times the space new bag does. New bag has compression bag wit it.

 
 
  GOODNESS -NO WINE? NO SINGLE MALT?
  Posted by: scupperfrank on Jul-02-13 4:51 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jul-03-13 3:22 PM EST --

How VERY uncivilized! Surely there's room and weight allocation for some -at least a bottle -of the GOOD stuff as you camp and

PADDLE ON!

-Frank in Miami

 
 
  Hee hee!
  Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-02-13 5:03 PM (EST)
There is an LCBO in Pointe au Baril if you seek libations.

While the temps are usually mild the fog is soggy. I personally hate the feel of clammy nylon on the inside of my sleeping bag.

Glad to hear the weather forecast is fine. For me I head to Pukaskwa the 24th and it will probably be stormy on Superior...but it is what it is.

I liked the last site on the western most side of French River Provincial Park.. I think it is site 831. Its out there on the delta.
 

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