Packing kayak and weight
Posted by: dc9mm on Jun-29-13 5:01 PM (EST) Category: Kayaks
Ok going on a kayak camping trip my first ever. Going with a group to Georgian Bay in Canada. Using my NDK Greenlander Pro. I tried test packing the kayak today. Almost everything fit inside except the Thermarest Sleeping pad which I attached on rear deck. Total gear weight was about 40 pounds. I weighed what I put into each hatch.
Rear hatch including sleeping pad on rear deck was 19 pounds.
Day hatch 9 pounds
Front hatch 12 pounds
I weigh 167 lbs
I havent yet test paddled loaded but will do so long before trip. Now what I haven't included in that weight was water that I will put into deck bag on front deck plus a one liter collapsible bottle in day hatch. I will be filtering water as I go. I have filter located in day hatch. I figure at lunch I can filter to refill water. I will either use three 20 ounce bottles in deck bag or one camel back 50 ounce bladder plus have the one liter in day hatch which depending on conditions might not want to access. Using Platypus Gravity fed water filter.
So as far as weight distribution does that sound ok? Never paddled before loaded like this but I will test paddle fully loaded before trip but thought I would see what others thought before I go out for a trial run.Might need more water maybe another 20 ouncer.
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- Packing kayak and weight - dc9mm - Jun-29-13 5:01 PM
among other things|
Posted by: RavenWing on Jun-29-13 7:14 PM (EST)
my math conversions clearly need work lol
to be totally self sufficient (commendable) you need your own compass and charts. If you get separated from your pack you'll want them.
Looks like a fine deck bag but to me a deck bag of whatever shape is less aerodynamic than a clear deck.
I'd still think once then twice about any of my sleeping gear being outside the boat and exposed to the wet.
The GPro is 17'8" and not esp. low volume compared to other Greenland styles.
You will be out for less than 3 days.
I have packed for 5 days' kayak camping on Lake Ontario and again on Lake Superior (100% self sufficient as you are including food and water, w. ability to boil/filter water as you will be doing) in a sea kayak that is 16 feet and even lower volume (think Valley Avocet LV and CD Suka) And still had roughly one cubic foot avail. No deck bag and -0- on deck but spare paddle, compass and charts.
Sure you can't fit everything *in* your boat? Asking not arguing. In the end, you are the captain of your ship.
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Posted by: seadart on Jun-29-13 7:15 PM (EST)
It's a good idea to pack the water low in the boat, a good place is right behind the seat. I don't like the idea of a large amount of water tied to the front deck. --- you want your boat slightly tail heavy so think about that when packing heavy weight up front.
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A packing trick|
Posted by: mjamja on Jul-01-13 9:59 PM (EST)
you might want to try is to stuff the sleeping bag or the tent into a drybag (or stuff sack) that is already inside the hatch. Simply put as much into the bag or stuff sack as you can and still put it in through the hatch. Then stuff the rest into the bag and close it inside the hatch. Often this gives you a much shorter and wider bundle than will go through the hatch if it was a solid mass on the outside.
I once had a cookset that would not go through the hatch. Finally dawned on me that if I took off the top, the bottom would fit through. Then the top could be flexed just enough to go through the hatch and reattached to seal everything together.
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Low-volume kayak, I guess?|
Posted by: WaterBird on Jul-01-13 3:43 PM (EST)
I've never even thought to weigh things for kayak camping. As a backpacker my weight is about 35 lbs. Kayaking easily allows far more weight and volume than backpacking.
For Georgian Bay I would not have a sleeping pad on the deck. I did that once and noticed a loss of control in the wind. In general I would say that self-inflating pads aren't the best choice for kayak camping. For that you want an air mattress, like the Exped Synmat, which is quite luxurious yet packs very small (by kayaking standards).
Which Thermarest are you using? Which tent and sleeping bag?
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Why are you carrying so much water?|
Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-01-13 4:15 PM (EST)
Georgian Bay water is perfectly fine to filter. Two quart nalgenes ought to do you or one dromedary. We pack our Expeds in the back and two fit against the bulkead. Each is about a liter size. I suspect you have a really big thick Thermy ( there are lots of models.) Yes you do have to work on that bag.. Again we have OR compression drybags that allow a bag to fit in an eight inch Valley hatch.
Georgian Bay is a nice place to kayak.. been there many times. You might consider bear spray. Not necessarily on the water but there have been incidents in the French River Delta.
The real challenge is packing kayaks for a ten day trip to the Everglades with water. That bleeping little front hatch was a pain. Water bottle all fit but made the bow heavy.
We will be out on Superior for 19 days and currently looking at a mound of freeze dried and dehydrated food in our family room. Fortunately I have a Mad River Monarch since the Shenai doesn't have that much volume. As far as your tent..consider packing tent and poles separately.
Compression dry bags are really your friend. They are pricey...but they have made many a trip more maneagble for us.
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Posted by: Jeffrey_lee on Jul-01-13 8:32 PM (EST)
Others here have already provided good advice.
40 lbs. is pretty light—I wish I could trim MY kit down that far! Too much beer and Scotch I guess ...
Having kayaked Georgian Bay, I'll echo the point regarding filtering water. It's very clean water up there and can easily be filtered as you go, requiring you to carry less water.
I esp. don't like the idea of carrying something as heavy as water (or even the self-inflating sleeping pad) on the decks, mostly for the poor balance. We usually carry only a day's worth (~4 liters), laid flat on the bottom of the stern compartment, directly behind the bulkhead; this keeps it low and near the boat's center-of-gravity.
As someone else mentioned, the inflatable pads offer a good compromise between weight and bulk:
Here's more info about packing for camping:
Whereabouts in Georgian Bay are you going?
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Ok what I have changed|
Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-01-13 11:17 PM (EST)
I bought a new sleeping bag. Its only 6 inch by 12. Rated for 40F which is plenty for July. With that change I can put the Thermarest pad into the rear hatch and move a few things to the front hatch since I now have WAY more room up there. Mostly very light stuff up front..
Now iam not carrying that much water. I can easily drink that much in a few hours. 60 ounces isn't much.2 liter is about 66 ounces. You guys in summer paddling hard don't drink 2 liters a day, really? Now I can cut it to say 40 ounces and filter water at lunch which is what I most likely will do. But even for short day paddles I always take two 20 ounce bottles.
Bears, yes dont like the thought of bears. I was just going to get a small airhorn to hopefully scare away any bears plus maybe someone else in the group will have some bear spray. Bear Bangers are popular in Canada. But you cant buy them in the USA.
Were going from Hartley Marina down French River to either Old Voyaguer or Voyaguer channel into bay then to killarny.About 45 miles. Yes iam aware of rapids on Old Voyaguer and needing to portage around that.Iam not leading so not sure which way the others want to go. I will mostly likely try test paddling my setup this coming weekend. It will be interesting to see how she rolls. Just for heck of it I will try it with Thermarest on rear deck. Keep in mind the Thermarest is very light. Its the Trail Pro large at 2 pounds 12 ounces so less than 3 pounds. If wind catches it drop skeg a little. But I can now keep it in the rear hatch but curious how it behaves with it out on deck.
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Posted by: amf on Jul-02-13 9:05 AM (EST)
Having packed a Romany for four nights in Maine, there's no reason you can't pack a Greenlander. Rethink the thermarest. You may need to buy one of the lightweight ones - they easily fit inside a hatch, and you want it inside. Leave the water, or only carry what you need for a day. You're on freshwater, and its clean. I'm heading up there too... I'll keep an eye out for a Greenlander on that little pond...
ps - be careful if you roll... I have a tendency to keep on going with a loaded boat after I come up, and have to roll again! I was hesitant to roll at first with a full load, and was amazed how easy it was.
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Packing ibn an NDK boat|
Posted by: Celia on Jul-02-13 9:56 AM (EST)
The 10 inch rounds do alter things that work in other boats. I found that when I went to an NDK boat from a boat that had one oval hatch.
So - use lots of smaller dry bags and throw a canvas bag on top to put all the little bags into to carry to the camp site. Get stuff sacks for all the soft goods - sleeping bag, tent if possible. Break up the bigger nested cook kit into two parts, or better yet just bring the smaller inside pieces. If you don't have one of those remarkably tiny camp stoves, get one. Tent poles go in separately from the tent. Go with a good ground cover (I think they are often called footprints) for the tent, and that will let you use a smaller thermarest pad without having totally chilly and wet feet in the morning.
If you can filter water that will help a lot.
It is surprising how much space you can get with the above techniques.
Now, back to the compass thing. I personally agree with others above that having and being able to use a chart and compass is not at all optional for a trip like this. No matter that someone else has the stuff - every paddler in the group should be able to manage at least basic how-to-get-to-land navigation. And in certain conditions, say thick fog, it is not possible without a functioning compass. Also - colder water and air temps tend to take out battery life much faster than when you are getting used to the device in your living room. We spend part of each summer in Maine, in water that is not as chilly and damp as Georgian Bay can get (except the last few days....), and battery life is probably half of what we get at home.
It doesn't take a huge investment. I am talking a strap-on compass or even a hand held compass with a decent size readout, and nosing around on the internet for charts you can print out. Then laminate them or get a chart case. You already know where you are going, so you should be able to find ones well-tailored to your needs.
I didn't catch it above - are you carrying a spare paddle?
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The rapids are not a big deal|
Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-02-13 10:45 AM (EST)
if GB is low there may be an ugly portage. Two years ago there was at Lily Chutes.
Your Thermarest is far from light. Your sleeping bag is also on the sketchy side. You probably will want a liner for that 40 degree bag. I take a 40 degree bag too but out on the Bustards I have always used the liner with it.
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Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-02-13 12:17 PM (EST)
I do have a compass but only know very basic navigation with it. Plenty of batteries for GPS.Paddling mostly along shore line. I will also be carrying a VHF on PFD along with a PLB (personal Locator Beacon, FastFind 220) on PFD as well.
Yes I have a spare Storm paddle. I use greenland paddles
40 fluid ounces of water isn't allot of water by any means. Easily drink twice that amount for an 8 hour paddle. Heck three times that.
40F sleeping bag is plenty for me. I sleep HOT iam like a heat pump. I have a Frogg Toggs as iam more worried about being to hot to sleep not the other way around. Keep thermostat at home in winter at 65F and like it that way.
Sleeping pad is Trail Pro, 2 inch thick one, no way i wanted one of the light weight thin ones. My understanding is its mostly rock I will be sleeping on. It fits in rear hatch, it always did but before i replaced cheap Coleman sleeping bag I needed the space in rear hatch NOW I don't.So it will be in rear hatch.Another guy who has paddle this area kept his pad on back and said he had no problems BUT again mine will now go in rear hatch.
Tent is a Kelty Grand Mesa 2 two person tent and I bought the Kelty footer for it.Its in rear hatch as well with poles but poles are not in drybag with it.
Water filter is Platypus gravity feed.
I have used the deck bag many times with zero bad effects in heavy winds 30 mph. Its the smaller deck bag look at picture I posted link to of it in one of my early posts.
Thanks for the advice from all.
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Posted by: Celia on Jul-02-13 1:31 PM (EST)
Basic navigation skills that can be plenty for emergency purposes. For example in the midcoast region of Maine all you have to be able to do is paddle north - hang the fancy chart work - and you will eventually bump into land. Then all that is left is to figure out which land - but at least you are dry.
It is one thing to rely primarily on navigation via electronics. It is quite another to find yourself in a lurch because the few hundred dollars worth of electronics failed and you aren't carrying a $20 strap on or $10 pocket compass.
Electronics that are totally reliable anywhere else get funky around cold salt water. I needlessly replaced two cell phone batteries before I found that the old ones held a charge just fine once we got inland again. And each laptop we bring to the coast will inexplicably lose some function that worked fine at home and will again upon our return.
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a few more|
Posted by: suiram on Jul-02-13 2:01 PM (EST)
I see that you are paddling with a group.
Redundancy is a good thing, but it does lead to some inefficiencies.
Water Filtration - water filters/pumps can definitely be shared. Perhaps you could ask around and see what other folks are bringing? Gravity driven filtration is nice to have since filtering is almost effortless, it does require a bit of time and differential of elevation - could be a bit issue if trying to resupply over lunch break on one of those flat GB islands.
I notice that you intend to put water bladder on the deck - this tends to reduce stability of a kayak. Unless fastened very securely it also tends to flop when kayak edges. Folks sometimes like to store extra water bladders behind the seat.
I didn't see anything about custom bulkheads on this boat - if you have space in front of footpegs it can be used to store some items, in a dry bag perhaps. It does present some entrapment and loss of gear issues, but I am quite sure you could figure out ways to manage.
Apologies if I suggested something that has already been suggested
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Posted by: kayamedic on Jul-02-13 5:03 PM (EST)
There is an LCBO in Pointe au Baril if you seek libations.
While the temps are usually mild the fog is soggy. I personally hate the feel of clammy nylon on the inside of my sleeping bag.
Glad to hear the weather forecast is fine. For me I head to Pukaskwa the 24th and it will probably be stormy on Superior...but it is what it is.
I liked the last site on the western most side of French River Provincial Park.. I think it is site 831. Its out there on the delta.
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