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  Scared of canoeing, help please!
  Posted by: alohanancy on Apr-27-13 9:28 PM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

Hello,

My husband just bought a 17 ft. canoe and we took our three children (2, 4, and 6 years old) to the lake today for the first time. All three children wore life vests. The experience was terrifying to me. I could only stay in the canoe for a few minutes before I made my husband row me and my 2 year old to shore. I was terrified the canoe would tip over and my 2 and 4 year old who can't swim would be struggling and I'm not a very good swimmer myself...My husband is a great swimmer, though.

I want to love this but the entire time i am so scared I feel like I am going to throw up.

Advice and encouragement would be much appreciated!!!
Nancy

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Messages in this Topic

 

  Shallow water, let the kids romp
  Posted by: onnopaddle on Apr-27-13 10:47 PM (EST)
and do what ever they want with the boat and you in it ! Practice everything right there with your husband standing by. This way everyone knows whats what and (IMO) your anxiety will be the only thing that sinks to the bottom.

Also swim lessons for the kids if they are not.
 
 
  Yep...
  Posted by: Al_A on Apr-27-13 11:21 PM (EST)
Wait until the water is warm enough to swim in before doing it, though. YOU need to get comfortable in deep water (wearing a life jacket) and the only way to do so is to put the life jacket on and go out into water that's over your head deep. Once YOU are comfortable and you trust yourself and your life jacket, you'll be comfortable with the kids. Just keep in mind that as long as the water and air temps are warm and it's not a huge, windy lake, the kids can bob around for a LONG time with no ill effects.

However, a healthy dose of respect for the water is always called for. If the water is not completely comfortable temperature-wise, hypothermia is a real danger. And big expanses of windy water are always questionable as far as safety in a canoe unless you're experienced in paddling in the wind.
 
 
  Tell hubby
  Posted by: jackl on Apr-28-13 6:36 AM (EST)
that for the time being, to just paddle in water that is only a few feet deep, so that if the canoe tipped over you could just stand up and grab the kids

I have always thought that no one should be in a canoe or kayak if they can't swim, even if they have a PFD on.

Jack L
 
 
  Amen, to Jack's advice. Why chance
  Posted by: shirlann on Apr-28-13 7:14 AM (EST)
giving someone a negative experience for a sport that can be an enjoyable one for the whole family.
 
 
  For non and poor swimmers
  Posted by: Cliffjrs on Apr-28-13 7:18 AM (EST)
Your fears are reasonable and spot on. Learn to swim first !
 
 
  What are you afraid of ?? .......
  Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-28-13 8:17 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-28-13 9:09 AM EST --

...... let me guess .

Drowning , you or children . Being helpless to prevent it .

The canoe turning over and everyone ending up in the water way out there away from shore , and possibly drowning .

The canoe not turning over but , children or yourself falling overboard , way out there away from shore , and feeling helpless to prevent a possible drowning that may follow .

Same as 1st or 2nd scenario but "not drowning" , just being stuck out there in the water bobbing and floating around w/o help or rescue , possibly family getting seperated and drifting away from each other .


People do drown . It happens when they can no longer keep their head above water . The reasons for not being able to keep one's head above water are many , body trauma from an impact , caught on something in the water , waves and rough water constantly covering one's head , strength exhaustion then sinking to the bottom , not being able to swim (sinking to the bottom) , in the water having having heart attack or stroke , cold water either quickly or slowly making one unable to move arms and legs (partial paralizes) , auto falls of bridge , shark bites you , run over by power boat (impact) , slipping in tub and knocked out face down (impact) , concrete boots . and the list goes on and on .

When you are in a pool the water is clear , you can see bottom . But when you are out on the lake or river , bottom is often not visible ... the water is dark looking and the surface is usually all you see . Unlike the pool , not seeing bottom in the dark water can be an uncomfortable feeling .

In order for one to be involved in , and enjoy an activity that has increased risk to life or injury (being in or driving an auto very much included) , one must understand that "risk management" is the key factor to participation .

Some form and level of education relating to the activity is recommended (often mandatory) in order to become proficiently skilled at it . In order to take control and effect a predictable outcome . To be comfortable and able to enjoy it .

So these are my recommendations for you .

1., ... keep gaing edu. in the paddling activity . By reading related materials (among others , Tamia's "In The Same Boat" articles here on P.net are an exceptionally good source , and enjoyable) .

2., ... become involved with other paddles , share conversation and experiences ... like you are doing here on P.net .

3., ... aquire practical experience by "going canoeing" , being in the canoe .

4., ... Swim lessons , pool time or shallow water practice ... helps gain confidence that you are in control , can control the outcome of an unexpected canoe flip or overboard fall .

5., ... Learn to properly fit your PFD , and then experience being in the water while wearing it (go take a dunking) . Do this with the kids as well , they'll love it ... look Ma , no hands , I'm floating !!

6., ... Understand there is a scale of the associated risk involved in paddling . As well the risk management increases proportionately with the scale ... keep the risk at the lowest levels as a beginner (calm , flat water , light or no wind, not too far from shore , avoid power boat waters , warm comfortable air and water temps. , short outings , and "only allow increased risk" as your experience , confidence , risk management abilities and comfort grow to match the higher risk conditions .

Pertaining to #6 , "ALWAYS REMEMBER" ... you can chose to say "No Go" today if the weather and water you see in front of you at the launch site are not what you expected , not what you wish to get into today . A pack up canoe and crew to go have a look see (expecting to go canoeing today) ... and changing your mind at the launch site due to conditions (or even your physical and/or pyscological condition that day) ... is always an exceptable outcome . Plans can change , no big deal , come back another day when things are better .

Tell yourself , if I'm going to do this canoeing thing ... then I'm going to do it like a pro , I'm going to read about , think about , and do everything I possibly can about the activity ... I'm going to be in control and take control . After all , your kids will be depending on you doing it that way ... and there's not a doubt in my mind , that you can be that prepared if you wish to ... and have fun . You can't make 3 , 5 or 10 years of experience happen in 2 days , but you can gain lightning speed in the edu. dept. side of it all , and that relates to quick gains in the actual paddling side of it . And with those gains comes the confidence and comfort to enjoy and have fun .


Ummm , canoes wiggle alot , them seem as if they wil turn over any second with the slightest provocation ... but they don't flip nearly as easily as you may think (acually takes quite a bit of horsing to flip a canoe) . They roll , bob and bounce with the water , one needs to learn how to just stay loose and centered and allow yourself to move "with" the canoe as opposed to fighting it ... that's part of the fun with canoes . This loose body motion comes with time in the canoe , don't worry not much time , but the more time the more natural it gets .








 
 
  PFDs
  Posted by: suiram on Apr-28-13 8:49 AM (EST)
Have enough floatation to keep anyone afloat
It understandable that as a non-swimmer you are apprehensive about being in water - we see it now and again when teaching kayaking.
Here is what I find works very well - we ask clients to put on PFDs, get in the water so the feet are still touching the bottom, then float your feet up are make sure you can see your toes wiggling.
When doing the same with kids - make sure pfds fit
Regarding kids - my friends' kid started getting into pool when he was 2, swimming and 4, swimming with grace at 6. Learning swimming at young age is so much easier than starting later in life
 
 
  Your problem is not the canoe
  Posted by: Celia on Apr-28-13 9:07 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-28-13 10:39 AM EST --

It is that you can't swim. Being that afraid of getting into the water with a PFD is an overly extreme reaction for someone who feels competent in the water. Focus on solving that. No one who is not a competent swimmer belongs in a boat, at least if it is on the water IMO.

To be a little more harsh, I was raised to believe it is not responsible to let kids grow up not knowing how to swim. My mother had learned to swim young, but she had an experience as an adult (her plane missed the runway and landed in the harbor at Newark) that hammered it home. None of the three of us were allowed to get beyond the earliest age where we could get lessons without learning.

The YMCA, if there is one anywhere within reach, offers not only great lessons for kids but also lessons specifically for (usually fearful) adults. Get your kids solid as soon as you can and get yourself wet too so you can help them if needed.

 
 
  I was a nonswimmer in small boats ...
  Posted by: Guideboatguy on Apr-28-13 9:15 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-28-13 10:22 AM EST --

... for a long time. Actually, I should say I wasn't really a nonswimmer, but a poor enough swimmer that everything changed when the water was over my head. Even the thought of swimming lessons was scary to me due to various experiences as a kid that I don't need to go into. I DID go in the water a fair amount where it wasn't over my head, and remembering what that was like later on, I realize that a PFD would have made a lot of difference in my comfort level in deep water. I finally saw a good opportunity to take swimming lessons as a young adult, and I did it. It's one of the smartest things I've ever done.

I agree with a lot of the advice above. Once the water gets warm I'd suggest playing around in the boat near shore with just you and your husband, so you can concentrate entirely on what YOU are feeling. Be communicative with your husband too. There's nothing more counterproductive than being afraid and not saying what you think, figuring you'll just get over it on your own but while not being in complete control. Stick to shallow water at first. Rock the boat, flip it intentionally, all that stuff. Then just walk it to the shallows and empty it out, and do it again. You'll feel a lot better when you understand how and why the boat moves beneath you, and what it really takes to make it flip.

Taking swimming lessons is a really good idea too. See if you can find a way to make that happen. Believe me, I KNOW, if you aren't comfortable about the idea it's easy to find reasons to see lessons as being too inconvenient. You won't still think that afterward if you make up your mind to do it, and ALSO to get something out of it. In the meantime, by all means learn to get comfortable being supported by that PFD. That will help a lot (but not as much as improving your swimming skills).

 
 
  Just do it...
  Posted by: PJC on Apr-28-13 12:02 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-28-13 12:21 PM EST --

There are lots of good thoughts expressed already but I'd add...

On a calm, warm, summer day, over a sandy, weed-free beach, just put on your PFDs, go out with your husband into waist deep water and tip the thing over. Just do it. (There it is, that's what you've been dreading. Its just good ole summer fun.) Laugh. Drag it in. Drain it. Do it again. Repeat as time allows.
I bet the first time you try you'll be amazed at how hard it actually is to tip a freely floating canoe. Most people fall out first and find themselves wading beside a boat with at most a few inches of water in the bottom. You might find yourself thinking that if you'd just hung on you could still be paddling. That's probably true. With discipline and practice you'll be able to actually swamp it on purpose though.

Having done this, you'll know what it takes, develop a feel for when things are getting "iffy." It takes more than most beginners think to tip a canoe. And when swamped they float better than most folks think. Even without a PFD (and I'm definitely NOT recommending going without) a properly made canoe will support swimmers even when completely swamped. Just toss your paddle into the swamped boat so it doesn't drift away, hang on, start kicking.

On a lake and if you've stayed reasonably near shore you and your husband can just take your time and swim it all in, just as you've done before on a sandy beach.
The kids can float inside the boat just as paddles do. (After you and your husband get used to playing in the shallows, its probably a good idea to let the kids, in their PFDs, get in on the fun next time. Especially after they're old enough and they've had some swimming lessons.)

Cold water, strong winds, big waves breaking on rocks, current on rivers, all these things present their own hazards and you can learn to handle each in their turn and on your own schedule, but they are all things that can be foreseen and avoided if you choose to. The most important safety item you'll ever carry is your own good judgement. (Don't leave shore without it.) The spot where most folks, even those with some experience, are more likely to tip is while getting in and out - usually in the shallowest water imaginable.

You'll probably learn to love being on the water. (My mother did when I was young, though she always remained less than enthusiastic about big waves. Perhaps that's actually reasonable, come to think of it.;-)) So will the kids. This is grand adventure for them and a childhood without a taste of adventure is a sad thing to contemplate.

 
 
  Risk?
  Posted by: davejjj on Apr-28-13 1:26 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-28-13 1:34 PM EST --

The primary risk is hypothermia if the water temperature is below 70F. You can certainly die of hypothermia if you can't reach shore and remain in the water for a long time. If the water is below 70F you should keep the canoe close to shore and if it is windy stay on the downwind side of the lake. You aren't going to drown with a PFD on unless you lose consciousness. As far as your level of fear you just need to go swimming with that PFD on and see how well it works.

http://www.useakayak.org/references/hypothermia_table.html

 
 
  Some swimming lessons would help,
  Posted by: bigspencer on Apr-28-13 6:13 PM (EST)
but IMHO...two adults(Recreational level) and three children in a 17footer isn't a great setup. An OT Tripper has the most chances...but something larger, with soft edges would help. The addition of the three children definitely needs the more initial stability.
Sounds like someone is used to paddling solely with their arms while remaining motionless...(---> doomed to pain).
$.01
 
 
  Get some lessons
  Posted by: Ian_montrose on Apr-29-13 2:33 AM (EST)
Three very young children and a not-very-confident adult in the water is a difficult situation to deal with. Your husband's swimming skills are not the main concern, it is his canoeing skills.
Can he handle the canoe in a brisk wind or is there a risk it could get blown away from the shore? Does he know how he would go about getting the five of you back in the boat quickly in the event of a capsize? Does he know that the kids must be wearing full life-jackets and not just PFDs? Does he know how he would summon outside assistance should it be required?

The best time to learn the answer to these questions is during controlled practice sessions supervised by experienced people, not during a real incident.
 
 
  O.K. next would be to hear from
  Posted by: onnopaddle on Apr-29-13 3:18 AM (EST)
your husband for a balanced understanding ...
 
 
  Scared
  Posted by: richardp on Apr-30-13 1:31 PM (EST)
Lots of great advice. I may sound harsh but do not pass on your fear of water to your children. Get comfortable on the water before you go out again with them. Kids pick up on parents fears very easily. Obviously, good pfd's that fit and are appropriate are key. When my daughters were 5 or 6 I would flip the canoe near shore (at about 6 ft deep or so) so they know what it would feel like. It showed them that the canoe would not sink and that it was not that big of a deal. Good luck.
 
 
  baby steps dealing with consequences
  Posted by: jcbikeski on Apr-30-13 2:11 PM (EST)
Fear is about thinking (over thinking?) about consequences. So the key is to directly confront those consequences but in extra safe situations. Start by spending more time in the water letting your PFD help you float and learning to trust it. Dress warm enough that you can just float without getting cold. Just float for a while then swim to shore. Learning to swim without a PFD is even better for confidence even if you always have the PFD. Next, in very shallow water (three feet or so) get goofy and gradually swing the boat back and forth until it does flip. Do the same with the kids. The more being in the water is a non-event the more you relax in the boat. You also learn where the real line is before flipping which may be less of a risk than you had thought.
 
 
  Canoe fear
  Posted by: ppine on Apr-30-13 2:19 PM (EST)
Build your confidence in a stepwise fashion. Start by paddling without the kids. Wear a PFD and go when the water is warm. Turn the boat over on purpose in shallow water. Learn its limitations. Learn to rescue yourself. Take swim lessons. Then when you figur all that out and have some confidence you can take the babies.

Your fear is natural and helps to preserve your whole family. You were not ready to be out there. It is supposed to be fun.
 
 
  Non swimmers should not be on the water
  Posted by: suntan on Apr-30-13 2:20 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Apr-30-13 2:23 PM EST --

After you learn to swim, you can learn the "Boat Boogie Wiggle". It's easy to learn and fun to do. Really works to overcome the fear. Learn to swim first. Does it make sense to be on the water if you can't swim? Why not take a class in Lifeguarding if you're going out with kids? Knowing how to swim is one thing but knowing how to rescue is another.

And of course, learn to swim in full gear, using the paddle and without losing boat.

 
 
  And non-flyers...
  Posted by: steve_in_idaho on Apr-30-13 3:51 PM (EST)
... should not be in airplanes?

Stay within the limits of what you can wade out of (it only takes about 6" to float the boat and another foot or so to use a paddle effectively), and get used to the canoe. You can be taking swimming lessons as well, in the meantime.
 
 
  Non-flyers in airplanes
  Posted by: Celia on May-01-13 10:04 AM (EST)
Little choice there unless the airlines are going to go back to 10 seater prop planes that a larger number of people could learn to fly. Individuals can control whether a few people in a boat can handle a problem though.
 
 
  No choice?
  Posted by: steve_in_idaho on May-01-13 12:10 PM (EST)
Of course there is. Choose not to fly.

My point is that there is no practical reason that the OP can't learn to be comfortable in a canoe while keeping it restricted to non-moving water shallow enough to walk in. Swimming lesson can be taken simultaneously, and will open up the rest of the lake for her. Safety is one thing, but that warning has a ring of exclusivity about it. I know there are folks operating canoes and other boats that are physically unable to swim, but manage to stay out of trouble.

The "non-swimmers shouldn't be on the water" remark makes as much sense as "non runners should stay out of cars", or the one I hear most often - "bicycles should stay off the road". In a controlled situation in walking-depth water, with people able and prepared to give aid nearby and watching(or ideally in the same boat), no big wind or other hazards - no reason why she can't be working on familiarity with the canoe, and even having some enjoyment in one.
 
 
  Not Practical
  Posted by: Celia on May-01-13 2:59 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: May-01-13 4:36 PM EST --

I am retired and have, for the most part sworn off flying because I have something going on that makes me and scanners a poor fit. But I have the luxury of that time - someone who is working a job where they have to be a lot of places in a short time does not have the choice of skipping planes. Higher end execs can at times pull that perk - younger people trying to start a career can't. If you have a job where you could make demands like this, you are one of the rare ones.

As to shallow water and drowning - the idea that no one drowns in shallow water comes around regularly, but the numbers do not bear that out. I just checked, and the best I can say is that it might have improved slightly from when I took my early lifesaving course. But it is still too many. My stepmother happens to be one of these folks - she nearly drowned in 3 feet of water a few years ago. Had they not gotten her out quickly - she was too panicked to stand up - she'd have aspirated a very risky amount of water into her lungs.

The link below gets you to a report on drownings in regulated environments - pools and guarded beaches - in NY state 1987 thru 2010. Pages 14 and 15 have the stats on deaths by depth of water at initial submersion. Per the charts on page 14, 32 out of 171 drowned in less than 3.5 ft of water, another 43 in water depth 3.5 ft to 5 ft. The pie charts on page 15 seem to show higher percentages of drownings at less than 5 ft, but it I am having trouble discerning the difference between pale grey and mid-grey (it is a B&W report) so can't say more than that it is enough people to take it seriously.

http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/outdoors/swimming/docs/drowning_statistics.pdf

I am not saying that everyone who is a poor swimmer would end up in a full panic, aspirate a fatal amount of water and drown in 3 feet of water. But unless you are walking around with a crystal ball, there is no way to know if a stranger you are dealing with will or will not be that one in a few.

I happen to have been an on-again off-again road bicyclist, BTW. We got the road by the LAW (before the name change) working state by state to agree that bicyclists would be liable for following the rules that cars have to on the road. The reason that drivers get frustrated is as often that the riders are ignoring that as that they simply find bikes inconvenient. I would be happy to see the police issuing more tickets than they do to bicycle riders.

 
 
  Your provided stats
  Posted by: steve_in_idaho on May-02-13 1:05 PM (EST)
show that from 1987 to 2010, two drowned in regulated pools and 5 at regulated beaches - in less than about 3' of water. No info there about whether any of those had pfds on, or a swamped boat to hold onto. No breakdown of those numbers by age or body type. Of those drowning in 3' - not even a breakdown of alcohol use.

Sure - it can happen, but I can think of a lot more dangerous things people do every day without a thought about it. And it doesn't even take 3' to float and paddle a canoe, or to learn how to stay in one. I'm just suggesting a little perspective here.

OTOH - http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_dro_and_sub_fol_fal_int_bat_tub-following-fall-into-bath-tub

What's up with those Japanese?
 
 
  here's some perspective
  Posted by: slushpaddler on May-02-13 2:14 PM (EST)
This video only takes three minutes. We are not talking the 400 meter butterfly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBiS0os4m9Y
 
 
  You looked at the wrong line
  Posted by: Celia on May-02-13 4:18 PM (EST)
I just rechecked - I am correct. I suspect you got diverted by the 2 at the top of the chart that is for drownings at an unknown depth.

"Per the charts on page 14, 32 out of 171 drowned in less than 3.5 ft of water" (add - 18 in a pool, 14 at a beach. What is meant by a pool or a beach with a life guard is generally well understood.)
 
 
  wow!
  Posted by: suiram on May-01-13 12:17 PM (EST)
Would you venture a guess how many folks living in Greenland, the place blamed for the "Greenland Paddle", can swim?
 
 
  But why are they in a boat?
  Posted by: Celia on May-01-13 3:10 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: May-01-13 3:32 PM EST --

As far as I am aware, young people in Greenland are put into a boat as early as they can manage. Given the water temps, it is their version of swimming I guess.

But why did people who live in those climates traditionally get into a boat to start with? It was to make necessary travel from one encampment to the other - hence the huge barge-like boats that literally whole families could get into - or to get food. And the death rate for the hunting parties not infrequently hit 50% if I heard that right.

I would guess that most people in Greenland now use a car for the same purposes that kayaks (or dog sleds) may have once been necessary, like going into town for supplies. And it is probably now like it has always been - not everyone does (or ever has) kayaked. Even a long time ago it would have made little sense to risk someone who was critical to a community's well-being by putting them in a boat unless it was absolutely necessary. Native peoples knew how quickly cold water kills long before white guys put together fancy charts.

None of this is comparable to the reason that people in Northern America get into a canoe and puddle around on a lake or a river. This is optional activity, not necessary for survival. There is the time and the opportunity, usually, to first learn to be safe and comfortable in the water.

 
 
  but we're not in greenland
  Posted by: slushpaddler on May-02-13 2:06 PM (EST)
There is a reason people in greenland progressed that way. We don't have the same obstacles.

I agree with the notion that if one paddles a watercraft one should have the ability to swim. Not to learn the competitive strokes, but just to be able to remain calm, float, and move about in the water. To me that's not expecting too much.
 
 
  The issue is not acquiring skills or a
  Posted by: spiritboat on Apr-30-13 6:45 PM (EST)
canoe--The issue sounds like a spouse leading you somewhere that you(and your little ones)are not ready to go...Discuss your ANXIETY with your husband first(instead of with all these "experts" here.) Then mutually arrive at a plan and proceed slowly.

That is, only if it's what YOU also wholeheartedly
really want.
 
 
  In addition to the other advice....
  Posted by: hikenmike on Apr-30-13 9:39 PM (EST)
If you were paddling in the bow (front) the kids movements etc. were going on behind your back and hard to anticipate. Try paddling from the stern for a time or two. I think when you a wary beginner It is less alarming when you can see what is causing the boat movement.

- mike
 
 
   With 7 years as professional lifeguard
  Posted by: suntan on May-01-13 5:55 PM (EST)
Stay off the water if you can not swim. There's 20 reasons why non swimmers should not go in or on the water. Don't get in a boat until you can swim well in full gear. Don't go in a pool, a river or a lake.
 
 
  Feeling frisky today.
  Posted by: steve_in_idaho on May-02-13 1:19 PM (EST)
How does a non-swimmer then, learn to swim? Books?

I know - I'm being argumentative. But I see some boxed-in thinking here.
 
 
  take a class
  Posted by: slushpaddler on May-02-13 2:04 PM (EST)
People seem to get overly defensive whenever someone suggests swimming. But we're not talking olympic swimming here. We're talking learning enough to help you survive and move around in the water. That's it. As one is doing that one becomes comfortable in the water.

I've been in the water all my life, since I can remember, so I may be blinded to the alternative, but I will never understand how someone who paddles a canoe or kayak doesn't think it's important to be comfortable in the water. That means some minimal measure of swimming ability.
 
 
  Fear can be overcome with practice
  Posted by: qajaqer2 on May-02-13 2:38 PM (EST)
I'm not a good swimmer, but I have a good PFD.The initial post does not state that the adults were wearing PFDs. If they weren't, they should be, even if they are great swimmers. As said above, practice near shore when the water is warm. This will help alot. Make a game with the kids falling out etc. Get comfortable and practice getting back in. Eventually you'll get comfortable enough to enjoy it, as I have.
 
 
  Adult swimming classes
  Posted by: Celia on May-02-13 4:11 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: May-02-13 4:23 PM EST --

I don't know why people assume that adults can't learn anything...

I said it in my post above, but I guess it needs to be repeated. "The YMCA, if there is one anywhere within reach, offers not only great lessons for kids but also lessons specifically for (usually fearful) adults. "

Adult beginning swimming classes are also offered at some larger school districts that have a community education program. I just did a simple search on adult swim lessons on Google and popped up swim lessons specific to adults, many including beginners, at a number of community centers and some private swim centers in addition to the above.

 
 
  How about being "boxed in" a cell for
  Posted by: suntan on May-04-13 11:22 AM (EST)
Child Endangerment? I'll testify.
 
 
  Not defending stupidity here
  Posted by: Steve_in_Idaho on May-04-13 8:48 PM (EST)
I knew it would be taken the wrong way, and it was...

I am a swimmer. I agree that the ability to swim should be a priority for any boater. I did not and would not defend the idea of taking off in a canoe with two small children and no ability to swim.

Point of the flippant question above was to emphasize that a non-swimmer has to start somewhere, and a controlled learning environment is of course preferred - but you are still on the water. Sarcasm and such doesn't translate well in this format, and I should know better. The point I was making here seems to have been lost, but it isn't important - so carry on.
 
 
  Not sarcasm
  Posted by: Celia on May-04-13 10:48 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: May-05-13 8:54 AM EST --

In this case, sarcasm would have been making cracks about a swimming instructor trying to deal with old farts with water wings and their hearing aids out.

If there is a way for kids to learn to swim without getting wet, I haven't seen it. No diff between young and old that way.

 

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