I ran across this site while trying to look up an index for Sea Kayaker Magazines (collected enough back issues that I have to start organizing them :-) )
It looks like this guy is making the point that the majority of current rescue methods and accessories (eg. paddle floats) are not effective in rough/dire conditions. It also appears several organizations & individuals are involved in "murder"...
I am still relatively new to kayaking and not sure what to make of this. Your thoughts?
Found the Sea Kayaker Magazine Index :-)
PFD's (Life Jackets)
Kayak Deck Gear Bags
1 Canoe/Kayak Trailer
|Table of Contents|
|Messages in this Topic|
Paddle floats are one rescue tool|
Posted by: kayamedic on Apr-25-13 10:23 AM (EST)
that individual is engaged in libel and slander. I would never purchase his sponsons.
Posted by: angstrom on Apr-25-13 10:37 AM (EST)
Posted by: ByronWalter on Apr-25-13 10:52 AM (EST)
...a$$ monkey. That is the worst product sales pitch that I have ever read. Me thinks that he may end up on the receiving end of a legal event.
No fraud, but a reasonable issue|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Apr-25-13 11:01 AM (EST)
Putting aside the guy's over-the-top rhetoric, polemics, bombast and misuse of legal terminology, he raises a legitimate safety question:
He has been around a long time|
Posted by: Dr_Disco on Apr-25-13 11:02 AM (EST)
He is a big time trouble maker with no common sense. Going all the way back to Usenet and the forums there he has made a career of wild accusations and spamming. Best to just ignore him.
paddle floats do have their limits|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Apr-25-13 11:20 AM (EST)
In mostly calm water paddle floats are a very realistic way to get back in if you don't have someone able to give a good assisted rescue. If a sudden boat wake or lack of care reaching in to your day hatch causes you to flip you can use it to get back in. As conditions get worse I do find them less ideal both due to the time it takes and trying to avoid flipping away from the float side. As you gain skills you will find other solo rescues quicker and sometimes more reliable.
Posted by: dc9mm on Apr-25-13 11:28 AM (EST)
A paddle float is useless if you never PRACTICED with it. If you give a person who has never used a paddle flaot before and say hey get back in your kayak they most likley wount be able to do it. Its a skill that needs to be LEARNED. They work with proper skill. No learned skill then they dont work. Just like a cowboy scarmble is usless without practice. Thinking about a paddle float ever try and re-enter and roll with a paddle float attached to your paddle. its bombproof.
Posted by: Waterbird on Apr-25-13 11:33 AM (EST)
Posted by: slushpaddler on Apr-25-13 11:41 AM (EST)
This guy is a loon with too much time on his hands. Any sane human being who was truly concerned about safety wouldn't go about it slandering competing products.
agree with veryone|
Posted by: Peter-CA on Apr-25-13 11:53 AM (EST)
Paddlefloat is the first recovery skill taught to sea kayakers as it is relatively easy to do. But most more advanced sea kayakers won't use that as their rescue of choice (if my roll failed, I would do a scramble if alone or T rescue if I had others around). As others have said, a paddlefloat rescue does have its limitations, both based on the skills and training of the person doing it and the conditions. But it is part of the toolbox of skills one should know.
Posted by: dajarr on Apr-26-13 8:18 PM (EST)
might make an interesting product review in a paddling magazine.
Posted by: gjf12 on Apr-25-13 12:08 PM (EST)
Maybe 10 or 15 years ago I bought a pair of those sponsons and set up my Mariner Express (which I have since sold) for them. I did a bit of practice with them, and they seemed to me better than the paddle float. They took longer to deploy but it was much easier to re-enter. It was very stable once you re entered and for bailing out the water. A bit of a hassle to then un-deploy them.
when a sales rep is dishonest|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Apr-25-13 12:29 PM (EST)
and disingenuous to the point he is, it's hard for that to not reflect on his product. A good product doesn't require dishonesty to sell.
Posted by: angstrom on Apr-25-13 1:06 PM (EST)
If a reasonable person were selling them, folks might take sponsons more seriously.
Posted by: carldelo on Apr-25-13 12:30 PM (EST)
...what about rule 91, never buy anything from a crazy person? I think I'll wait until a sane person steals his idea, then try it. Wait, that violates rule 73, never buy a product sold by someone who stole the idea, dang....
Posted by: thebob.com on Apr-25-13 1:45 PM (EST)
right. nothing is "foolproof"|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Apr-25-13 2:26 PM (EST)
(particularly to us kayakers and canoeists!)
A nut case|
Posted by: guideboatguy on Apr-25-13 1:46 PM (EST)
it sort of makes me sad|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Apr-25-13 2:28 PM (EST)
I agree. His message gets completely lost in his rhetoric.
Posted by: wavespinner on Apr-25-13 2:43 PM (EST)
The paddle float can serve well as insurance for this technique.
Seen his shtick before.|
Posted by: steve_in_idaho on Apr-25-13 2:56 PM (EST)
I believe this guy is angling for legislation requiring his product on every paddlecraft. He is definitely performing for the nannies and those who would want nannies.
I never thought of that before|
Posted by: guideboatguy on Apr-25-13 3:55 PM (EST)
You might have hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: thebob.com on Apr-25-13 4:08 PM (EST)
Give him a free cell phone, and tell him,
Posted by: gjf12 on Apr-25-13 5:46 PM (EST)
I don't see why everyone is getting so excited about the guy. I don't know him, only briefly skimmed his rants, and the rants of those that don't like him. I don't care about him one way or the other.
Posted by: slushpaddler on Apr-25-13 5:56 PM (EST)
The OP asked for input on the nutcase's site. People are answering. If you don't like the answers - don't ask or don't read them.
Seems to me|
Posted by: gjf12 on Apr-25-13 6:15 PM (EST)
if one wants to be helpful to the OP, it might be slightly better to talk about the sponsons, not the web site or the purveyor. I am certainly not a believer in the sponsons, however I actually mounted them on my boat and experimented with them.
Posted by: thebob.com on Apr-25-13 7:21 PM (EST)
Posted by: Steve_in_Idaho on Apr-26-13 12:20 AM (EST)
Sponson guy is the one who needs to mellow out. He won't though - cause he's got some snake oil to sell, and mellow just won't do.
The sponson guy|
Posted by: Celia on Apr-25-13 6:19 PM (EST)
He has an agenda. 'Nuff said.
Sponson Guy is a small antelope, |
Posted by: ezwater on Apr-25-13 7:13 PM (EST)
a dik dik.
Posted by: Celia on Apr-25-13 7:43 PM (EST)
You're correct that I have not stretched|
Posted by: ezwater on Apr-26-13 12:28 AM (EST)
my distance offshore. That is an ancient survival strategy drummed into my head through evolution. My ancestors colonized the world by paddling along shorelines, staying within reasonable distance of some landing. Ever try to reboard a coracle?
I'm amazed that...|
Posted by: ByronWalter on Apr-26-13 4:31 PM (EST)
...you haven't flipped. I always work from the assumption that I'm between capsizes and am prepared for those eventualities.
I'm sure I would flip in surf. And |
Posted by: ezwater on Apr-26-13 11:54 PM (EST)
out on the ocean, big waves might get me.
Just head north....|
Posted by: scott_f on Apr-26-13 1:56 AM (EST)
I guess I am safe up here in Canada. Seems this wave of paddle float deaths is only killing Americans.
remidns me of|
Posted by: Peter-CA on Apr-26-13 11:57 PM (EST)
Reminds me of a picture that popped up on my facebook feed today:
He who shall not be named...|
Posted by: rjd9999 on Apr-26-13 10:43 AM (EST)
is a zealot. I have a long history with him and while I would never go out on the water without safety equipment, if the choice were between death and carrying this idiot's product on the boat, I'd have to think long and hard about the matter before setting out.
He's not just a zealot, he's deranged|
Posted by: BNystrom on Apr-28-13 12:03 PM (EST)
He rails against the established methods of sea kayak self-rescue and calls anyone who teaches them a murderer, but he routinely attempts to exploit the deaths of children for his personal gain. Don't believe for a minute that his ranting is about safety; it's about money, plain and simple. He stands to make a pile of it if he can convince politicians to mandate his product on all kayaks sold (his stated goal). He is a sick, twisted individual. Fortunately, nobody is listening to him, since it's obvious how crazy he is.
Perfect Murder at Sea Kayaker|
Posted by: Safety99 on Aug-08-13 2:07 PM (EST)
Please read all of:
Posted by: jerrysmith on Apr-26-13 10:19 PM (EST)
seen him around for years already|
Posted by: RubricOfRuin on Apr-27-13 7:18 AM (EST)
He's a moron, the one about whom it was said "fear not the fools who know nothing, but the ones who have read only one book".
Thank you all!|
Posted by: kayak_bob on Apr-30-13 4:45 PM (EST)
Thank you everyone for their comments!