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Advice, Suggestions and General Help New Topic Printer Friendly Version

  Warped and flexible canoe terms
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Feb-28-13 4:01 PM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

In another thread there was a lively debate about hull bottom defects even though there was no mention in the OP of that thread that such a defect even existed.

Nevertheless, I am interested in words and the proper use of them. Therefore, as advice, suggestions and general help for future hull defect discussions, will you all please clarify the differential meanings of the following words as they apply to the bottom of canoe and kayak hulls:

- "dented"
- "hogged"
- "oilcanning"
- "flexing"
- "negatively rockered"


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Messages in this Topic

 

  My take ....
  Posted by: clarion on Feb-28-13 4:31 PM (EST)
- "dented" -- A localized indentation caused by an impact

- "hogged" -- Bottom of the hull permanently warped upward over a very large area

- "oilcanning" -- Bottom of the hull flexing under the upward pressure of water while the hull is underway

- "flexing" -- Sides of the hull moving inward/outward while the hull is underway, especially when under power or when being hit by wave action

- "negatively rockered" -- See "hogged"
 
 
  Is this a test?
  Posted by: kayamedic on Feb-28-13 4:37 PM (EST)
I just copied Clarion.
 
 
  The Hogged Back Saint
  Posted by: dougd on Feb-28-13 5:14 PM (EST)
Would fit every term put up so far with the exception of flexing, too damn wide to flex! It is a Disco 158 for the record and famous for oil canning or hog backing. I have major dents from bouncing off canyon walls, rocks, logs and a few unexpected drops, oil canning enough so if you stomp hard enough you can launch a beverage into your hand. I consider oil canning and hogged the same. There are enough waves in the bottom of this boat to almost get seasick looking at! Brian has the definitions hitting the hammer on the head IMO.

Nothing wrong with a boat with those characteristics, mine has a lot of miles on her hull. Love it for poling and sailing but hate it for portaging.

dougd



 
 
  Oil canning that would launch a beverage
  Posted by: clarion on Mar-01-13 9:25 AM (EST)
The mental image of you poling The Saint and stomping the floor to kick a beer up into your waiting hand is priceless!
 
 
  Next Time We Paddle Together
  Posted by: dougd on Mar-01-13 6:38 PM (EST)
I just make myth into legend by doing just that! :-)
 
 
  As far as I am concerned,
  Posted by: jackl on Feb-28-13 5:33 PM (EST)
the definitions are what the boat owner thinks them to be.
You'll get different definations from different "pros"

Jack L
 
 
  I copied too.............
  Posted by: thebob.com on Feb-28-13 6:32 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-28-13 6:45 PM EST --

I copied off kayakmedic, who copied off clarion.
I saw her copying his answers.......

Clarion was sitting too far from me, for me to clearly read his answers. kayakmedic was sitting on my left, and it was much easier to see & copy what she wrote. I don't think the teacher even saw me copying.

Hope they answered correctly, and I get a good grade. My grade point average could use a boost.
Actually, I thought it was a trick question.
My head hurts; I hate tests.

:^)
BOB

 
 
  I write neater than Brian does too!
  Posted by: kayamedic on Feb-28-13 6:59 PM (EST)
um..not.
 
 
  I will defer to Brian and Kim
  Posted by: pblanc on Feb-28-13 8:15 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Feb-28-13 8:25 PM EST --

who are clearly masters of the warped and defective.

In all seriousness, I have seen the term "oil canning" applied to paddle craft in two different ways. The most common usage (I think) refers to the phenomenon of some rather thin Royalex and polyethylene boats (especially thermoformed poly boats that lack a keel ridge or keelson) to visibly flex upward under stress symmetrically over a sizable area, and then "pop" back to their original configuration.

I have also heard the term oil canning applied to permanent pan wave deformation of hull bottoms of some boats. Old Town Discovery 3 layer rotomolded poly boats seem especially prone to this. This deformation is not necessarily associated with a hog backed state (although it may be).

I don't usually refer to that type of permanent rippled deformation as oil canning because it invites confusion with the dynamic phenomenon of bottom flexing. It might not be inappropriate to do so though. Architects and roofers refer to a static pan wave deformation of thin metal sheeting as oil canning, which is caused by thermal expansion, probably the same mechanism at work on the Discovery hulls.

I have generally reserved the descriptors "hogged" or "hog backed" for hulls that have been permanently deformed in such a way that the midpoint of the hull along the center line draws less water than the hull at the stems. I suppose one could refer to a hull that is permanently deformed in such a way that the rocker has been reduced, but the center is still deeper than the stems as "hogged", but I don't.

Flexing could I suppose refer to any number of temporary deformities. Have you ever balanced a Royalex hull on a 2 x 4 placed under the midsection transversely? I have done so quite a few times when determining pedestal placement in symmetrical hulls. Many Royalex hulls will "droop" enough at the ends that both stems touch the ground surface, even though the hull bottom does not indent visibly. I'm certain the same thing happens all the time in whitewater even though the deformity is not visible (or permanent).

 
 
  The thing with bulged sheet metal...
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Feb-28-13 8:31 PM (EST)
... in that static-wave example is that it will invariably "pop" when pushed in a direction that reverses the bend. I really don't envision warped plastic or Royalex behaving in that way, though I suppose if everything were exactly right, it could. Normally, it just bends with fairly uniform resistance per amount of displacement when a force is applied, but doesn't "snap past center" with a pop.
 
 
  "Pan wave deformation"
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Feb-28-13 8:36 PM (EST)
Forgive me for I have sinned: I omitted this term from my OP. I don't have any idea at all what this one means, except I will assume Doug's boat has it.

BTW, I'm not claiming any of these terms has a settled or definitive meaning, but they are used by many of us with some frequency.

As a tentative nomenclatural suggestion, I think of negative rocker as an intentionally designed thing, but I'm not sure if hogging can be intentional or not.
 
 
  Us hogs are rooting for you, Glenn.
  Posted by: g2d on Feb-28-13 9:28 PM (EST)
 
 
  canoe ?
  Posted by: Mattt on Mar-01-13 8:51 AM (EST)
oh!!canoe terms - I thought you were trying to find an old girlfriend
 
 
  "Well-loved"
  Posted by: tktoo on Mar-02-13 11:05 AM (EST)
"Great camp boat"

Favorite CL descriptions for some or all conditions listed above.
 

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