I am planning to do a 28 mile race this summer on a very shallow and twisting river. paddlers are each about 180 lbs. We will be paddling a jensen 18 in fiberglass layup. what is the ideal trim for the most speed? bow light? bow heavy? and by how many inches? if any of you brilliant paddlers can help me i would appreciate it. thanks, MrGreen
Kayak & Canoe Outriggers
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My wife and I race a 17 foot Jensen,|
Posted by: Jackl on Feb-11-13 5:44 AM (EST)
Perhaps for a twisting river, you might |
Posted by: ezwater on Feb-11-13 3:43 PM (EST)
want to be just a smidge bow light. Canoes designed more for general purpose and less for speed may have more bow than stern rocker.
Posted by: plaidpaddler on Feb-11-13 5:12 PM (EST)
Dead level is my preference. A half bubble bow light is ok, but not bow down. The Jensens have no rocker and the 18' is not the best choice for a tight stream. Especially a glass hull with two full sized paddlers.
Posted by: mcimes on Feb-12-13 9:25 AM (EST)
As others have said you want to be perfectly trim or slightly bow up. Also, as others have said, being comfortable leaning near the edge will help you turn a lot. If you can, go out with your partner and get really comfortable near the edge of staying dry. Even take it so far you swamp it a couple times (in a few feet of water). Knowing the limit of your canoe is very helpful.
Posted by: captainsmollett on Feb-13-13 9:53 PM (EST)
I trim my Jensen 18 1/2 inch or so bow down. At speed it runs a little bit bow up.
Posted by: MCImes on Feb-13-13 10:46 PM (EST)
You're right. If you can be that precise with your trim 1/2" bow down would be ideal so that at speed you're perfectly level.
Posted by: openboater on Feb-14-13 7:06 AM (EST)
at speed the hull will plane out. Bow down and you plow.
displacement hulls do not plane|
Posted by: captainsmollett on Feb-14-13 9:46 PM (EST)
bow light just means that your stern is going to be sinking further into the water at speed,shortening your waterline and increasing resistance. Planing hulls have a wide flat stern to allow the boat to "ski" on the area that is in contact with the water. Once they reach a certain speed they will ride up ontoo that flat base, ride over the bow wave and plane. A displacement hulls speed is dependant on its length. They are designed to ride between the wake coming off the bow and stern. The longer the boat, the faster it can go since the distance between the two waves is greater. When you look at a racing canoe you notice they have a nearly vertical bow and stern. This is to maximize the waterline length when the boat is moving. Bow down always if you are looking for speed. The boat should be as close to level as you can get when you are moving at your cruising speed.
OP is racing tandem in an 18' Jensen.|
Posted by: openboater on Feb-15-13 3:34 AM (EST)
If you set up bow heavy, the bow will plow deeper as the bow paddler drives forward with each stroke. Set up a little bow light to compensate.
Posted by: openboater on Feb-15-13 4:09 AM (EST)
When you watch a race live or on video, note the hulls are never level. Wind, chop, other boat wakes, and body movements of the racers all keep the hull bouncing. The best racers are usually the ones best and keeping the hull moving as smoothly as possible, but she'll never be flat. Good form goes a long way.
The term is heel, not lean|
Posted by: kayamedic on Feb-13-13 10:22 PM (EST)
In this case semantics can be important. I told someone to lean the boat once. The person got "lean" and did not get "the boat". When they leaned over, they got very wet.
slightly bow down|
Posted by: baldpaddler on Feb-14-13 8:50 PM (EST)
at rest for flat water. once you start pulling it will level out. In shallows slide forward cause it will squat at s
Posted by: openboater on Feb-15-13 3:47 AM (EST)
Coming forward to drive the bow down in the shallows is only affective if you are able to "pop" the hull. The canoe also sends a wave off the bottom of the hull, thus in the shallows, the wave hits the bottom of the river and bounces back up and "grabs" the hull. One of two things happen here. One, you either time your sprint into the shallows so as to "pop" or get ahead of your own bottom wave and surf it through the shallows (awesome feeling when it happens). Two, you get stuck behind your own bottom wave and have to climb it all the way through the shallows (suckwater). Bow down is not going to help the racers in this situation. Suckwater is the term used to describe the hull being held back by it's own bottom wave in shallows.
No wonder we beat you all the time!|
Posted by: jackl on Feb-15-13 7:10 PM (EST)
You need to stop that plowing and get the bow a tad up, or at least trim
Posted by: baldpaddler on Feb-17-13 6:23 PM (EST)
You started beating us when we had to switch seats due to our bow paddler putting us several Inches bow down. If we could trim off 100 lbs combined we would start beating you again on flat water( we never will
I heard that you have a cute new ......|
Posted by: jackl on Feb-18-13 5:19 AM (EST)
little bow paddler, that should be groomed in about ten years.
Confusing. Has the OP been answered?|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Feb-15-13 1:05 PM (EST)
The OP specifically asks about maximal speed in an 18' Jensen in a very shallow and TWISTING river.
I trim bow down|
Posted by: captainsmollett on Feb-15-13 11:02 PM (EST)
thats how racers run their canoes. When you catch up to me at the finish I will be happy to explain hydrodynamics to you
I believe you|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Feb-16-13 1:29 AM (EST)
And I read on racing forums that other marathon racers similarly believe in a slightly bow down resting trim. However, I see at least a minority of marathon racers on those same forums who prefer neutral resting trim, or who believe it depends on the hull shape of the particular racing canoe.
Jensen 18 trim|
Posted by: canoeracer on Feb-16-13 7:10 AM (EST)
The jensen 18 is an old design. If racing this canoe in shallow water trim it atleast 2" bow down when the canoe is not moving. When moving the bow will rise up. A very strong team would run it more bow down. It will be easier to turn is it is not stern heavy. This canoe has little rocker by running it bow down it will free the stern for easier steering. I have been racing canoes for 45 years.
What Bruce says...|
Posted by: openboater on Feb-16-13 8:28 AM (EST)
Posted by: mrgreen on Feb-17-13 12:04 AM (EST)
it sounds like you are the man to believe. I was getting a little confused there for a while. I will try it out when the water gets softer and let you know how it goes.
A lot depends on the team|
Posted by: baldpaddler on Feb-18-13 8:58 PM (EST)
When Randy and I were slim and fit we could kick a** in our class running slightly bow down(at rest) Now we just want to get to the end with out swimming..With a weak team(or partner) I try to start out level or bowlight.