-- Last Updated: Jan-31-13 11:30 PM EST --
I am planning to do some rock gardening so I have been working a lot on self rescues. I learned to roll counter clockwise first then clockwise, I am successful in both directions about 95% of the time in pool practice. Due to my freakishly large head and upper body I am really top heavy, so I rely on laying back on the deck to be able to snap the boat under me.
I am having a very hard time rolling in the direction I went over (or need to) and find myself setting up for the counter clockwise roll.
My wife thinks I need to just stop bracing and "go with" the roll every time we are out paddling. Is this just learning another bad habit? I already have lots of bad habits and dont need more.
Just looking for some free advice before seeking more professional help.
Hardshell Kayak Sail Rigs
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had a similar problem|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Jan-31-13 11:22 PM (EST)
I'm still trying to visualize ...|
Posted by: seadart on Jan-31-13 11:29 PM (EST)
Clockwise vs Counter Clockwise .... I'm assuming you mean you do a forward role and set up on the left side of the boat?
Posted by: Kudzu on Feb-01-13 7:21 AM (EST)
Can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?
Flat water practice helps...|
Posted by: t.george on Feb-01-13 8:00 AM (EST)
...but in the surf & more-so in rock gardens it's a very different experience as you now know. A couple of things to practice would be, rolling back up on the same side, set-up then switch to opposite side, pull spare paddle while under and roll up. I've had times when the current seems like it will support a recovery only to surge the opposite way at the moment of the attempt causing a fail; sometimes I've just waited for the current to shift back, other times moved to the opposite side. I generally find i want my set-up to be on the side of "positive pressure" or toward the flow if you get the drift. When I find myself on the "down flow" the stronger the flow the harder it is to switch against that flow to the "up flow" side. Make sure to turn the blades so they slice as you move from the down flow side to the up flow, a few times I've found myself doing upside down sculling type moves with the paddle to get to the set-up position. If the bow, stern or side of the boat is in contact with a feature you may need to set-up on the same side as the feature so you avoid trying to roll up & onto the feature,(whick will usually result in a failure). To accomplish rolling up on the same side as a feature you may need to first use your paddle to push off from it as you set-up so there's enough room for your sweep. Finally, when both sides of the boat are in contact with the feature, you're generally screwed IME and it's time to punch out & work toward a re-entry.
...I should have mentioned...|
Posted by: t.george on Feb-01-13 8:13 AM (EST)
that while you're upside down when you feel your boat moving with the surge there are a couple of things to consider. 1)Your paddle is your best defense against impact. Try to keep it in front of you face when in doubt. 2)If your boat is gently surging it's usually better to just wait for things to settle. 3)If the surge feels like you're off to the races, get your boat between you & the direction of trave ASAP; this puts you on the positive pressure side and the boat on the potential impact side. 4)Always best to pick features with clean deep water beyond, so one can be relaxed about recovery if it goes awry. 5)Screw the ego, punch out & swim if needed.
...and back to your original question...|
Posted by: t.george on Feb-01-13 8:23 AM (EST)
generally fight for it to the last with bracing or whatever works. The one place I will forgo trying to save it is if I know I can get clear by hammering down even if it will cause a capsize. Rock gardening is lots of instantaneous decisions with potential for serious consequences for the wrong choice.
Posted by: suiram on Feb-01-13 9:11 AM (EST)
I am quite sure 99+% of this board has never seen you roll. It would help tremendously with helpful advice if you filmed your roll and posted it on youtube
Posted by: Celia on Feb-01-13 10:12 AM (EST)
Posted by: Jaybabina on Feb-01-13 10:40 AM (EST)
Most paddlers never capsize unless you're really pushing yourself in surf conditions - which I would avoid until you gat the roll down better. But you're on the right track. 95% success - pretty good. Just keep working on it and your bracing too. What happens is suddenly you never capsize any more. I paddle with a lot of different people a lot and nobody capsizes. In real surf, yes, everybody capsizes.
yes but he's wanting to rock garden|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Feb-01-13 11:08 AM (EST)
which is basically (normally smaller) surf over and around rocks. So flipping often happens and either a rock could be in your way or the surf may aid/hinder rolling on certain sides. I think one should be fairly good at rolling before doing rocks or surf but not perfect since that's the envirnment that will help you get better (i.e. learn to relax and roll well even when stressed or tossed about). I do suggest making sure one is reasonable in surf first though especially taking side hits and paddling backward through breaking surf before doing much in surf hit rocks.
"Sidedness" in surf|
Posted by: Celia on Feb-01-13 11:22 AM (EST)
I don't think there is a "right" way|
Posted by: pblanc on Feb-01-13 11:18 AM (EST)
I have paddled with some excellent whitewater kayakers who always roll on the same side. Obviously, being able to roll up on both sides is an advantage in some situations.
Sculling to breathe|
Posted by: Jaybabina on Feb-02-13 8:21 AM (EST)
One thing that has helped me enormously and has bailed me out a few times is the ability to scull. I almost came out of my boat once - out of position and slammed back over with some surf so I just sculled up. Now I could take a few breaths, get my composure and roll up. Breathing is more important than getting upright immediately. Unfortunately there's not much emphases on it with traditional teaching methods. For me it's a strong asset in my skills.
Learn to Hand-Roll|
Posted by: Kocho on Feb-01-13 2:55 PM (EST)
Ways to practice rolling|
Posted by: mjamja on Feb-01-13 5:36 PM (EST)
Something that might help is practicing slightly differently.
Posted by: NateHanson on Feb-01-13 5:45 PM (EST)
Avoiding capsizing is always better than rolling. Learn to roll well, and then get really good at not needing it in conditions.
rolling lets you experiment|
Posted by: jcbikeski on Feb-01-13 6:01 PM (EST)
biggest reason I learned to roll and especially on both sides was to push myself more in surf. Without a roll I would wimp out on bigger waves because I knew the hassle of a long swim. In any sport learning to fall correctly lets you try things out and discover the boundaries.
I am planning a light surf practice|
Posted by: trvlrerik on Feb-01-13 10:33 PM (EST)
in mid March, just to get an idea of wave dynamics. It seems the more I learn and try, the less I actually know. I guess that is why paddling is such fun.
Posted by: Kudzu on Feb-02-13 5:18 AM (EST)
Someone posted here awhile back that they see some individuals at symposiums year after year. These people make no progress whatsoever. Why? They don't practice between symposiums.