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  Canoe transportation issues
  Posted by: cvg_ohio on Jan-20-13 2:27 AM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

Hello I am new to the Forum.

Looking for an inexpensive acessory that will keep the Canoe on the 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee from sliding off the rack. Some type of block or ends that can be easily fastened to the OEM rack. Any suggestions....

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Messages in this Topic

 

  See if these....
  Posted by: holmes375 on Jan-20-13 2:38 AM (EST)
will do what you want:

http://www.maloneautoracks.com/big-foot-pro.php

I've been using them for a few years and quite like them. Used them on a round bar trailer, round bar truck rack and a factory Honda CRV rack. Worked like a charm in all instances.
 
 
  Check out these articles
  Posted by: bluemerle on Jan-20-13 8:06 AM (EST)
http://www.paddling.net/guidelines/showCategory.html?category=14

I'm not sure about your specific rack, canoe or tie-down method. There should be little problem securing your canoe, whether with ropes or straps, unless it has tumble home. Then brackets are useful.
 
 
  :Load Stops" are nice, but ...
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Jan-20-13 8:21 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-20-13 9:05 AM EST --

... you will spend about $100 for a set of four from any big-name company like Yakima, Thule or Malone. when I decided I wanted blocks like that, I built a set that are a slightly less convenient to use but still as good as any you can buy for about $5, but they only fit cross bars made from 2x4 lumber. Not everyone has the tools/skill to do that sort of thing, especially to fit a factory crossbar that's oblong in cross section.

In your case, one trick that works pretty well is to wrap a pair of loops around the boat at the front end of the rack, and at the rear end. For each pair, one loop ties to the edge of the rack, loops around the boat, and returns to the same spot. The other loop does the same thing but on the other side. If these are nice and tight, the boat can't move right or left "at all", though in actual fact, since the upper part of each loop is not horizontal between the hull and the tie-down point, the boat can move a little. There's no way to make it rock-solid when some ropes are not aligned exactly against the direction that the boat moves. However, the boat won't move much, and if it does it will always spring back again, so you won't have to worry about it getting too far out of place.

Also, if you provide ropes going forward and backward between thwarts on the canoe and some part of the boat rack and you will prevent forward-backward slippage far more effectively than bow and stern tie-down alone can do.

 
 
  Loops alone, not enough
  Posted by: booztalkin on Jan-21-13 6:05 PM (EST)
I tie my canoes to my Thule bars using GBG's loop method, and that is not enough to keep the boat from moving. If there is a good stiff side wind, over time, my boats have moved several inches. In November, making a 945 mile driving north in westerly winds gusting 30 - 40, I used the remote mirror control to train my rear view mirror up at the cross bar and fearfully watched my boat walk itself to the edge of my Thule bars. I stopped in time and retied, adding sideways control knots around the towers. I didn't loose the boat, but even with the added side-control knots, the boat wiggled and there was a lot of wear on the gunwales. The problem is exacerbated by tractor trailer traffic and the fact that I tie the boat with a lot more bow hanging off the bars than stern, so a sideways wind torques the bow end of the boat.

2x4 racks are far superior to most factory racks in this respect. If you take a couple of wraps around 2x4 racks, the rope doesn't slide on the 2x4 and forms it's own pseudo gunwale stop. On my Thule, I've been using webbing straps, because they seem to cling better to the Thule bars. So GBG may be able to get away with his approach on the 2x4s.

GBG, I'm put off by the $100 price the big-names charge for gunwale stops. I sketched out a couple wood block solutions with the idea of making something that was self-clamping--where the pressure of the rope or strap around the bar would compress the stop. I haven't been able to come up with anything that would take only two hands to attach/tie, so haven't moved beyond sketches. What have you come up with?

~~Chip
 
 
  Hi Chip
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Jan-21-13 6:54 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-21-13 7:11 PM EST --

First off, I think my double-loop method might have an advantage on my rack that might not be possible with most, because I have secure anchor points for those side-to-side loops that are well out toward the rack ends. It simply isn't possible for the boat to move far, and it can't creep over time. I'd have to see your method to figure out why the boat can creep, but something is different from what I'm doing.

Another trick that I've mentioned before is to mount the canoe farther rearward on the rack than what "looks pleasing to the eye". If you place the boat so its centerpoint is about two to three feet behind center relative to the rack (the rack, not the vehicle itself), you'll reduce the effect of crosswinds and truck turbulence enormously (two feet rearward is usually plenty, but I might go with three feet in severe conditions). I can't recommend this strongly enough - it just works amazingly well. By the same token, if the boat is forward of center on the rack (usually, people do this to make the boat more centered in comparison to the overall length of the vehicle), that makes the effect of turbulence and crosswinds far worse. You've already pointed this out of course, but if I had to guess, I'd say moving the boat rearward of center by two feet cuts the effect of crosswinds down to about one-quarter of what it'd otherwise be (which is why I say it's "amazing").

Your idea for a two-piece gunwale block that locks in place via rope tension sounds very clever to me, and I bet there's a way to make it work, even if it means getting it locked with a separate rope (rather then the tie-downs). My gunwale blocks that fit 2x4s consist of a piece of angle iron that's a little longer than the width of the 2x4. They are padded on the surface which contacts the boat with plastic tubing having a short length of rope inside to keep it "fluffed" (this also insures that the little bolts on each end of the tubing which hold it to the metal won't contact the gunwales, though they are covered with thick plastic too). There's a downward-pointing bolt welded to each end of the angle iron, and those bolts go through holes in a matching, flat steel plate that fits against the bottom side of the 2x4. Tightening nuts on those bolts clamps the 2x4 between the top angle iron and the bottom plate. Since the bolts are welded to the top piece, assembling the bracket can be done pretty easily with one hand if necessary, such as while reaching to the back side of a canoe that's already on the rack, and tightening each nut is a one-handed operation too since the bolts won't spin. If I couldn't weld, I'd get bolts that were threaded their full length, and lock them in place with nuts on the bottom side of the angle iron.

Someday I'll replace my broken camera so I can illustrate things like this, rather than describe them.

 
 
  Walmart = cheap,BEST fix
  Posted by: wh2ofox on Jan-20-13 7:39 PM (EST)
I dont know what/why U have trouble. I have a 2001 Jeep G.C. with factory racks{NEVER had any falls or slide issues} I put Yakima racks on it. Still no issues.
Go to Wallyworld-or pool place-or anywhere in your town thats sells POOL NOODLES !!! Put a slit down the noodles[predetermined by rack shape] wrap around the rack, tape[where and as needed] with elec tape.
You just fixed your slide/fall issue for 5-10 dollars. My first "purrfixed' job lasted 7 years, maybe?? 5oo - 600 trips.
 
 
  Thanks for the information
  Posted by: cvg_ohio on Jan-21-13 2:39 PM (EST)
I will try the pool noodles sounds like a good fix. If I cannot find them in the color I like might go with the pipeinsulation might blend in better. I just wished the racks were not so smooth.

CVG_Ohio
 
 
  OR no tape
  Posted by: wh2ofox on Jan-20-13 7:41 PM (EST)
then you can take 'em on and off in a few seconds
 
 
  winter
  Posted by: Jeffers on Jan-20-13 10:11 PM (EST)
when its out of season for the pool noodles you can always go to a hardware store and get pipe insulators and they are already preslitted.

lower profile and they will blend in with the rack.
 
 
  Here's what I did
  Posted by: jhb8426 on Jan-22-13 2:01 AM (EST)
Shop made stop blocks.

http://imageshack.us/a/img390/5739/block2xt0.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img390/9472/block1br1.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img390/5825/block3io3.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img390/2004/block4sw5.jpg
 
 
  Those look good
  Posted by: booztalkin on Jan-23-13 4:28 PM (EST)
I carry different boats and sometimes two boats, so I want stops that are easy to reposition. Something like those would work if I added thumb wheels--it looks like you need to get out the screwdriver when you want to reposition yours.

~~Chip
 
 
  Yes - tools required
  Posted by: jhb8426 on Jan-24-13 11:37 PM (EST)
They could use a redesign with thumb screws, but I don't move them much.
 
 
  Very nice!
  Posted by: Canuka on Jan-24-13 2:03 PM (EST)
I like those wood blocks! I think I would rather go through the trouble of making something like that than paying Yakima almost $80 for four L-shaped stops and two stupid straps I already have. No, they won't sell them without the straps, only in a kit.
 
 
  Yes
  Posted by: jhb8426 on Jan-24-13 11:40 PM (EST)
Same with Thule.
 
 
  What did you use?
  Posted by: Canuka on Jan-25-13 8:43 AM (EST)
Obviously, you used some nice hardwood for the blocks. But what is the other half, the black part underneath?
 
 
  Maple
  Posted by: jhb8426 on Jan-26-13 12:16 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-26-13 12:19 AM EST --

Both parts are maple. The bottoms are painted. The width of the cut in the bottom of the verticals is to allow the blocks to be turned to match the hull curvature. Turned out it didn't have to be that much.

 
 
  Nice wood working there :)
  Posted by: cvg_ohio on Jan-25-13 10:44 AM (EST)
I was thinking the same thing but thought about PVC. I Like the nautical look of the wood. What was the block made of underneath? That would definately solve the problem of the canoe sliding off the rack as it comes on and off.

Thanks for the information!

CVG_Ohio
 
 
  attachment points
  Posted by: ppine on Jan-24-13 5:05 PM (EST)
Or get some heavy nylon rope and tie your boat with a trucker's hitch and save your self some money.
 
 
  attachment points
  Posted by: ppine on Jan-24-13 5:05 PM (EST)
Or get some heavy nylon rope and tie your boat with a trucker's hitch and save your self some money.
 
 
  Cam straps and rope
  Posted by: deuce on Jan-25-13 11:06 AM (EST)
What tie down method are you using? I strap my sixteen foot canoe fore and aft with cam straps and use a bow rope in an inverted V shape tied with a trucker's hitch. This locks it in place pretty well even in the four and six lane trucking corridors I have to travel to get to most of my rivers.
 
 
  One thng I do
  Posted by: Celia on Jan-25-13 1:07 PM (EST)
The long time canoe folks may disagree, but after a few trips watching my canoe be secure but still more mobile than I was used to with kayaks I just had to add one more fix. I don't have load stops because I'd have to undo the padding to protect the kayaks and it seemed there had to be an easier way. I do the usual of a fore and aft strap over the hull and a bow line. The one diff with the canoe is that I run the bow line from one side of the hood to the other (to loops coming out from under the hood), in a triangle, with a knot in the middle to keep it from sliding side to side. With the kayak it would be a single run from bow to a strap.

But upon realizing that I could easily get at least one of the thwarts to line up with the cross bar, I also grab a strap and secure a thwart to the crossbar from underneath. Much less motion so the driver is happier. And if you do this in the rear with a long enough strap, you can run it out to the stern and make it do double duty as a flag of sorts to meet the overhang requirements.
 
 
  Issue is it sliding off...
  Posted by: cvg_ohio on Jan-25-13 4:31 PM (EST)
When I loaded the canoe on the Jeep cross rails by my self it wants to slide off the side of the Jeep! Not comfortable with that at all. Those blocks will also allow 1 person to place the canoe on top from behind and push it forward without it sliding off and possably scratching or smashing the canoe to the ground. I only have the one canoe so this is the better solution for me. I use ratchet straps on the canoe once it is on the racks. front/back and 2 in the mid section of the canoe.

CVG_Ohio
 
 
  I see.
  Posted by: deuce on Jan-25-13 4:50 PM (EST)
I must have misread your original post. I've found the perfect way to load my sixteen footer without worrying about that. I square my vehicle up to the retaining wall that borders the front yard as though it were a loading dock. That gives me a height advantage that comes in handy for sliding the boat onto the bars. This may seem like a stupid question, but are you parking on the most level spot available when loading? Also, I'd encourage you to switch to good heavy duty cam straps. I think you'd be glad you did.
 
 
  Redneck way or dirt cheap way.
  Posted by: scorpion5 on Jan-25-13 8:33 PM (EST)
Two pool noodles. Slit one side and slide it over your front rack and back cross member. Wire tie it down and then put your canoe on it and tie it down. It won't go anywhere because it compresses and holds it in place without damaging your rack. Has been working for me for years.
 
 
  redneck perfection
  Posted by: scorpion5 on Jan-25-13 8:42 PM (EST)
I made a cheap rack for my suburban that will hold two kayaks and a canoe with tow 4x4's and eye hooks. Easy to set up and use. If anyone is interested I can take pics and post them. The rack comes off when not in use. Drove to Florida and back twice from Missouri without a problem.
 
 
  Stopping sideways slide
  Posted by: Celia on Jan-26-13 10:21 AM (EST)
Stuff that I mentioned above that seems to stop the sideways motion -

Using a bow line. I see sideways movement instantly and stop the car to fix things.
Triangulated bow attachment with knot in the middle - limits how much it can move anyway.
Padding on the cross bars - less slick than without.
Internal strap holding thwart to my crossbar actually runs thru the middle of an older style U-shaped stacker. As long as the strap hold, the boat can't go any further sideways than a side of the stacker.

There are also the logical things involving how you strap it - make sure the strapping or rope is inside of vertical mounts for the crossbars. And you could always add some straps from each end of a thwart to hold a constant distance from there to the vertical tower for the rack, working from underneath. It'd take more time but it'd hold the boat.
 

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