Your #1 source for kayaking and canoeing information.               FREE Newsletter!
my Profile
 





 
Advice, Suggestions and General Help New Topic Printer Friendly Version

  rescue in big waves norway
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-12-13 4:45 AM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

-- Last Updated: Jan-12-13 4:52 AM EST --

here is another rescue in big heavy conditions. this looks pretty dangerous to me.with the: the surfers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3cdCvKX3p8&feature=youtu.be
one of the guys is knocked over by a big wave and his paddle breaks..so this is the real thing. thanks to the boy that put out the clip. i have paddled with them several times.


 Great Products from the Buyers' Guide:

Touring Kayak Paddles

Hoister

See Bags

Bug Shelters

Fishing PFD's

Table of Contents




Messages in this Topic

 

  interesting
  Posted by: Peter-CA on Jan-12-13 1:09 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-12-13 1:09 PM EST --

I watched it, without having closely read your message. Was wondering why they were towing in the surf, but then when I reread your post about broken paddle, it made more sense. Presumably no spare paddle?

Did seem the guy spent a lot of time in the water. Glad he dressed for it.

Those windsurfers were an issue. Seems they should have noticed an upside down kayak and given a little room.

 
 
  windsurfer
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jan-12-13 1:39 PM (EST)
Yes that windsurfer went right over rthe tow line and was pretty close to the man in water.
 
 
  Don't play in the surf
  Posted by: seadart on Jan-12-13 6:59 PM (EST)
if you can't handle crashing. The windsurfers probably had some choice words for the kayaker parked in the take off zone,
 
 
  Armchair analysis ...
  Posted by: seadart on Jan-12-13 2:47 PM (EST)
The waves are breaking but they are spilling, and not steeped walled up boomers, they break and then backing off. I I was in this situation, I would flip the boat upright, lie on the back deck and swim the boat in like a surfboard. He only needs to move the boat 30 yds or so to be out of the major impact zone. Then hang on to the back and ride the whitewash in. I seriously recommend kayakers practicing paddling their craft while lying on the back deck. if a huge wave comes through you can sink the stern, let go and hope for the best. Not much point hanging on a boat in waves and hoping for your friends to come and get clobbered.
 
 
  Yep, that was painful to watch ..
  Posted by: onnopaddle on Jan-12-13 11:48 PM (EST)
 
 
  ^good advice
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Jan-15-13 10:44 AM (EST)
 
 
  The rope wraped around the kayak
  Posted by: castoff on Jan-13-13 10:05 AM (EST)
Sure looked like an entanglement hazard after he rolled up the second time in the surf with his tow rope wraped around his kayak just in front of him. I second climbing on the back of the kayak rather than waiting.
 
 
  Conditions were
  Posted by: rjd9999 on Jan-13-13 2:58 PM (EST)
confused, with lots of rebound waves (clapotis) from the rocks, but otherwise, I would not call these big waves. In fact, I've done surf practice with novices in larger waves.

That the water had a lot of rebound waves, however, makes a rescue rather difficult. The cameraman rolled up no fewer than three times and did so pretty easily, so I can't fault his rolling skill.

I didn't see the camera on the paddler who lost the paddle, so I have no idea why that paddle broke. It would be nice to have that and see if he was bracing or trying to roll up. If rolling, there may be a technique issue there (or an old paddle :)), since it doesn't take that much force to roll or brace a boat.

Once the paddle failed, all bets for a reasonable rescue got a lot more difficult. As pointed out already, it would have been nice if at least one of them had a backup paddle.

I would love to take the moral high-ground, but I can't since there were times I didn't carry a backup paddle, either.

Damn.

Rick
 
 
  hehe..
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-13-13 4:54 PM (EST)
look at those waves where you see the kayak frtom a distance. kayak looks small. so i dont know. id say they are pretty big..
 
 
  Well...
  Posted by: rjd9999 on Jan-13-13 6:32 PM (EST)
When the entire length of my 17' boat can sit on the face of the wave and there is wave both below and above, that's a bit of a wave. Now, I've only done that a few times and didn't stay out long, but when paddling in an ocean storm, you sometimes exceed your comfort level.

Many of these see to be about 4-6 feet trough-crest and that is pretty much what I normally see when paddling and/or practicing in surf in Monterey. A couple are much larger, nearly the length of the boat in one set (at about the 3:40-4:00). There is really good sized wave at the 4:55 mark of the film where the wave is nearly the length of the boat trough-crest. I don't know these boats, but they don't seem to be a lot shorter than the 17' boat I typically use. Those were exceptionally large and there were long periods of surf that were much smaller.

One of the major advantages I see in the video is that you don't get the dumping surf you usually see in Monterey since the shore dropoff doesn't seem quite as dramatic. Paddling in through high dumping surf is best avoided, IMO. It may be exhilarating, but it's all too brief to be a lot of fun and collecting rocks in your gear is overrated :).

I might add the paddler did a really nice job of keeping his elbows in when bracing. Nice strong high braces at the 8-9 minute mark after a good roll.

Rick
 
 
  Waves ...
  Posted by: seadart on Jan-13-13 7:55 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-13-13 7:56 PM EST --

It looks like the waves are rolling through a channel between small rocky islands. I think på norsk er de "holmer" ikke sant? There is a deeper channel you can tell and a reef coming out from one of the rocky banks, because the complex shore line you get reflections too. It looks pretty gnarly but actually I bet is a fun place to play since the waves start to break moving over the reef but move into deeper water and back off. Looks like some current action too because it's in a channel .. There were two large swells there but they did not break full on. This appears to be a popular surf spot, so the kayakers should have been better prepared for getting out of the way. A paddle leash as mentioned might have been helpful (or maybe that is how he broke his paddle ;).


Wanna surf has a map of the area but not clear where these guys were.

http://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Europe/Norway/saltstein/index.html

 
 
  yes. this place
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-14-13 1:54 AM (EST)
is called saltstein, and its one of southeast norways most heavy beaches since the waves can come in directly with a long fetch. I agree that the waves might not have been the most difficult(dangerous. I belive the guys where taken a bit by surprise, and when they posted the clip they also asked for suggestions as to what they could have done better.
personally i think i at least would have tried to get back in with a quick cowboy entry and one of the other reserve paddles.
The most scary thing as i see it was the surfers and ropes. all in all it went well and im sure they learned a lot. thanks again to the folks that put it out..
 
 
  Nice Ideas
  Posted by: FrankNC on Jan-14-13 11:52 AM (EST)
I never thought about paddling the kayak like a surfboard while laying on the back deck. I'll have to fill it with water and try that at the pool this winter.

I think it is great when people are willing to share their experiences when things don't go perfectly.
 
 
  agree..
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-14-13 12:37 PM (EST)
id like to see some of those big ocean stormwaves in a clip one day. stuff like that is facinating. I have befriended a pilotboat driver, so perhaps one day i can bring a kayak in the pilotboat.
 
 
  solo back deck
  Posted by: nickjc on Jan-14-13 4:12 PM (EST)
Here's a pic of a student 'riding' his boat in like a surfboard a couple of weeks ago in a surf class taught by rogue wave adventures in Washington.
http://www.roguewaveadventures.com/

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/165090_585079188176331_682964107_n.jpg
 
 
  so many options
  Posted by: nickjc on Jan-14-13 1:04 PM (EST)
with a spare paddle:
cowboy self rescue
re-enter and roll
without a spare paddle:
back deck assisted rescue,
back deck self rescue
toggle tow out of surf zone

The guy with the camera facing him is asking for a shoulder dislocation with that bracing technique. Elbows in tight! And getting down wave from a loose boat is a good way to get nailed.
Those waves were a perfect size and shape for surfing.
 
 
  in my opinion
  Posted by: jesse59 on Jan-14-13 7:01 PM (EST)
The only good rescue in the surf is a self rescue, and towing is a recipe for disaster!

As mentioned ride the boat in, everyone else steer clear. They did alright though despite the towing and being downwave of the rescue in progress.

You make mistakes and you learn from them.

At least they're getting after it.
 
 
  was the sailboarder coming to help?
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Jan-15-13 10:48 AM (EST)
Or just oblivious to the whole thing?
 
 
  The sailboarder
  Posted by: rjd9999 on Jan-15-13 11:19 AM (EST)
The intentions of the sailboarder were unclear, but he could easy have taken the swimmer to shore more quickly and safely than the kayakers could.

Rescue from any third party is contingent on a few things, mainly the ability to recognize there is a danger, followed by the training to plan, execute, and follow up on the rescue should first aid be needed. We can't assume the boarder had the ability to recognize that there was a "problem" no matter how obvious it was to other observers (us).

Even then, without the ability to understand what to do, he'd need to be trained on the spot to execute the rescue. Because of the sail and the need to restart from in the water, while both people try to balance and work the sail, this may be more difficult than I first imagined and not something the boarder could execute cleanly. It could perhaps be done if the rescued individual was laying atop or astride the board, but even that would make it more difficult to balance and perform a rescue.

I've never seen a rescue done with a sailboard, though it looks like it should be possible after a few rather ugly start attempts.

Rick
 
 
  hehe..
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-15-13 11:24 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-15-13 11:27 AM EST --

those surfers dont give a shit about us kayakers. imagine that rope being tight, hehe..thats the most dangerous aspect in this clip id say..some of them are really good.some are not. last season i saw a sailboarder crach into a sailboat ina force 7...he didnt see it..

 
 
  Playing well with others ....
  Posted by: seadart on Jan-15-13 11:50 AM (EST)
I think what a lot of kayakers miss, is an understanding of the rules of the game in areas that are frequented by other people riding surf craft. You need to learn the rules of the road and stay out of the way. Sail boards don't have a right of way, but nobody in their right mind is going to drop in on one when moving a full speed.

It's very likely that if the others using the break thought the swimming kayaker was in any grave danger they would have come to help. As it was they probably thought he was a "kook" and left him alone to learn his lesson. Performing a rescue with a sail on a narrow sail board in the break zone would be pretty tricky.
 
 
  yes.
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-15-13 11:54 AM (EST)
when the waves get this bit its not so easy to see a kayak, or surfer for that matter..you are focuced on the conditions, and all of a sudden they are there heading streight at you. Ive paddled quite a lot with surfers and its been great. serving them caffe from the kayak and chatting.
 
 
  Around here
  Posted by: rjd9999 on Jan-15-13 1:46 PM (EST)
Surfers, sailboarders, and kayaks tend to avoid being in the same place at the same time. Surfers REALLY dislike having kayaks among them for obvious reasons. Kayaks are (typically) under less control (since they don't cut as sharply or as well), have lots more mass, and continue to travel in the wave even after the capsize. Collisions between surfers and kayaks don't end well for the surfer.

Worse, most of us don't use or understand the surfer lexicon and hand signals, so lots of kayakers simply don't get the message. For this reason, many of them are shunned by the surfer community.

Sailboarders probably have a more comprehensive view of their surroundings than either kaykers or surfers. They have to look well ahead of them in order to plan and execute. They are standing, of course, which helps a lot. Because they are moving a whole lot faster, as you see in the video, they need to see further ahead to respond to conditions they will encounter. On the downside, that sail can block a lot of visual area, so if you are on the opposite side of the sail, you can't assume you'll be seen.

They tend to be more aloof than kayakers in this area. If talked to, I often get nothing more than a grunt in return. It seems that if you don't share their interest in the sport, they don't really seem motivated to interact. Kayakers seem to be much more gregarious (around here, at least).

This could stem from the amount of crap that surfers throw around to keep everyone off "their" beach. These folk tend to be much more territorial. A more surly lot I've seldom seen, though I can understand their safety concerns.

And yes, these gross generalizations are not to be applied to individuals, since there are lots of variations in human behavior, but the trends are there.

Rick
 
 
  The GOOD NEWS
  Posted by: seadart on Jan-15-13 2:57 PM (EST)
Sailboarders and kite surfers only tend to surf around here when it is so windy it's not worth board surfing or paddle surfing.

I've only encountered really good windsurfers at Davenport, and seen some in Aawaii when not surfing. I've encountered a few trying to surf here, but they were not very good.
 
 
  do
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-15-13 3:09 PM (EST)
you know Halvor? he was an awesome kayaker, but has stopped, to become sailboarder.
 
 
  what about the sailboarder?
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Jan-16-13 10:52 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Jan-18-13 9:25 AM EST --

Can you conceive of a possibility in the video where the sailboarder was at fault? Capsizes happen, even on a sailboard. Didn't appear to me that they dropped in on the sailboarder. They may be surf-savvy in your neck of the woods but not always the case here.
Sailboarding in surf isn't the same as surfing. Your range is much greater.

 

Google
 
Web Paddling.net


Follow us on:
Free Newsletter | About Us | Site Map | Advertising Info | Contact Us

©2014 Paddling.net Inc.
Sweepstakes Shirt Sale