On my kayak trips on saltwater I carry several MSR Dromedary bags that I carry in the hatches up against the bulkhead. Works great, but they take up a lot of valuable hatch space.
I read an article recently where Jeff Allen said he carries one large Dromedary (a 13 liter) instead of multiple smaller ones and places it in the cockpit.
I can see where that would save a lot of hatch spaces; however, I wonder if that would have a negative impact on the ability to roll the boat if you needed / wanted to.
A loaded boat is no harder to roll than an unloaded, boat, but I wonder if the very heavy "loose" item in the cockpit could be detrimental. If you were capsized and upside down, the heavy bag would fall to the deck side of the cockpit and potentially cause the boat to want to stay upside down rather than to roll up. At least this is what I would logically see as happening.
Anyone have any experience in doing this who can comment?
1 Canoe/Kayak Trailer
Canoe Pack Liner
Touring Kayak Paddles
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|Messages in this Topic|
behind the seat|
Posted by: Peter-CA on Nov-17-12 7:55 PM (EST)
behind the seat....|
Posted by: bowler1 on Nov-17-12 8:06 PM (EST)
that's another good option that may prevent the bag from flopping from bottom to top, thus potentially hindering rolling.
type of paddling|
Posted by: rusty125 on Nov-17-12 11:00 PM (EST)
I think it will depend somewhat on the type of paddling you will be doing. I keep a 3L camelback behind the seat of my Nordy, and that is about all that will fit under the backback to bulkhead straps.
Try it out and see what works for you|
Posted by: paddlemore on Nov-17-12 8:23 PM (EST)
A loose 13 L Dromedary bag (27.5 lbs or less) in the cockpit of a loaded sea kayak should make that much of a difference. It you try it out and does keep you from rolling then you know you need to work on your technique.
Posted by: LittleRed on Nov-17-12 11:59 PM (EST)
Another thing to keep in mind about one large Dromedary vs several smaller ones: If you put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak, you could be in trouble if you lose that large one or it springs a leak (even though Dromedaries are pretty tough).
Shouldn't be an issue|
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-18-12 3:34 AM (EST)
Items that are not secured to the boat will also move along with the rolling motion. As the boat moves from upside down to slightly to its side, the bag would follow the lowest point of contact in the boat and essentially follow the hull line.
Posted by: lyngo on Nov-18-12 6:33 AM (EST)
When camping I almost always paddle with an unsecured 10L water bottle between my legs. Not ideal, just not alot of options, hatch space is way too precious and securing the bag would mean rope in the cockpit, an entrapment risk, or placing the bag too far forward. I don't think it would impact rolling at all but I agree that it is best to have it behind the seat if possible. Lyn
All good thoughts....|
Posted by: bowler1 on Nov-18-12 7:54 AM (EST)
But has anyone actually tried rolling with the bag in the cockpit?
has been a problem|
Posted by: NateHanson on Nov-18-12 4:46 PM (EST)
I have not put my 10L bag under my legs because a friend once got capsized during an expedition, and when he rolled up, a large water bladder in his cockpit was stuck over on one side, so both his feet were on the right side of the boat, and the 20 pound water bladder was on the left. He did ok, but felt fairly uneasy in the rough conditions that had just capsized him, but was unable to sort it all out until he had finished the challenging crossing.
Posted by: paddlemore on Nov-18-12 9:07 PM (EST)
Its never been a problem, but I usually store it beyond my foot pegs.
Posted by: chodups on Nov-18-12 12:26 PM (EST)
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-18-12 3:45 PM (EST)
With the suction cups/straps. Better, most likely, than any attempt to wedge an amorphous bag of water into a secure location or having it lie between legs.
Posted by: kelvin1 on Nov-18-12 6:11 PM (EST)
Posted by: nickjc on Nov-18-12 12:48 PM (EST)
Shawna Franklin from Body Boat Blade related a story during a rescue class: In a storm on the south coast of Iceland, her husband came out of his boat when he got hit by a large wave and couldn't get back in because of bags in the cockpit that had shifted. They ended up having to do a towed rescue in big surf conditions before they could rearrange his cockpit. After that they went back to the rule of nothing in the cockpit unsecured.
Posted by: underhills on Nov-18-12 4:39 PM (EST)
I have 2 sets of NRS D rings that come attached to a patch then I glued one set in front of my feet and the other behind my back band. That way I can tie down anything I place inside my cockpit including water bladders and my paddle float.
Posted by: kelvin1 on Nov-18-12 6:15 PM (EST)
This article about a Falklands trip demonstrates what is probably the biggest danger of carrying your water loose in the cockpit.
water bags thoughts|
Posted by: gstamer on Nov-18-12 6:20 PM (EST)
Some of my peers prefer placing water bladders under their knees. I tried this once -- I hate of the feel of it (it felt confining) and it impeded my leg drive.
Posted by: gnarlydog on Nov-18-12 6:23 PM (EST)
I have never seen a 13lt Dromedary bag but I have several 10lt ones that I use on long trips.
Posted by: lyngo on Nov-19-12 5:59 AM (EST)
I wouldn't do a long crossing or paddle all day in any kind of weather with a loose bag in the cockpit. I limit this setup to going from launch to first campsite and from place of water supply back to campsite, always a short distance. Lyn
Northwater Bladder Anchor|
Posted by: Marshall on Nov-19-12 8:46 AM (EST)
Comes I pairs. Web daisy chain sewn onto hypalon. Glue in line along keel line starting in front if the seat. Puts the ballast weight right in line with the heaviest load in the kayak, the paddler.
Posted by: bowler1 on Nov-19-12 5:16 PM (EST)
I have used them in a canoe before for tying down portage packs...never would have thought to use them in my kayak.
Posted by: chodups on Nov-19-12 9:24 PM (EST)
....Vynabond has worked well for me on two glass boats. I did have an initial failure on my second boat, a Tempest, when I took a casual approach to surface preperation. Once I prepped the area appropriately the mounting tab adhered really well.
Padeyes, G-Flex, 1/4|
Posted by: trilliumlake on Nov-19-12 5:18 PM (EST)
1) Position the bag in the cockpit, extending from the front bulkhead toward the seat.
MSR bag mounting |
Posted by: joebhamilton on Nov-19-12 8:41 PM (EST)
I have mounted MSR 10m liter bags in the cockpit of my Epic V10S surfski and in the rear hatch of my Kaskazi Skua ARX and dumped both and the bags stayed in place.
3M 5200 or 4200|
Posted by: Marshall on Nov-20-12 7:05 AM (EST)
These seem to stick just about anything together.
i DO NOT ROLL...|
Posted by: rikjohnson on Nov-20-12 1:22 PM (EST)
But I DO often carry a large MSR Dromadory bag under my thighs.
MSR bag mounting |
Posted by: joebhamilton on Nov-30-12 9:38 PM (EST)
My previous mounting link may not work
I always carry mine behind the seat|
Posted by: bowrudder on Nov-30-12 9:50 PM (EST)
in the cockpit. Learned it from Steve Scherrer. Makes sense putting all the weight in the center of the boat. Don't know why you'd want to put it anywhere else.
Dromedary bag placement|
Posted by: joebhamilton on Nov-30-12 10:14 PM (EST)
I mounted the MSR bag further back to move the Skua ARX CG rearward. The new model Skua ARX has a more rearward cockpit but the older model's CG was too far forward which affected the handling with the rudder up.