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  Valley Nordkapp vs. NDK Greenlander Pro?
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-07-12 5:50 AM (EST)
   Category: unassigned 

Hi,

Just wanted to see if anyone had opinions about the Nordkapp vs. the Greenlander Pro.

I have paddled both fairly extensively and really like them both, but am undecided.

Of course they are seemingly different in many ways: hard chine vs. soft, lots of rocker versus little, much different stability profiles, etc.

However, they are similar in many ways too in that they are both very fast expedition boats that are surprsingly maneuverable for their length, seaworthy in big water, and great surfing in following seas. The mix of speed, surfing ability and maneuverability is what makes these two boats stand out.

How would you compare them in terms of: speed and efficiency, ability to surf following seas / windwaves, maneuverability and rough water performance?

Just curious....


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Messages in this Topic

 

  Not sure why you're asking us
  Posted by: 123Abuelo on Nov-07-12 6:35 AM (EST)
if you have paddled these extensively as you say. How do YOU like them? You might get 15 replies here and 15 different answers but it all comes down to what you want out of a boat.
 
 
  I have....
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-07-12 7:26 AM (EST)
But I am curious to hear other opinions and feedback from those who may have discovered something about the boat in a particular situation I have not experienced or considered.

Also have not gotten to do actually take a GPS to both to compare speed.

Other opinions and more data is always good...right?

Personally I like them both, but am a bit undecided between the two and can't paddle them back to back. Can't have both either unfortunately.

Also, the conditions in which I have paddled both may be slightly different since I owned and paddled them in different locations and conditions.
 
 
  The most important difference may be...
  Posted by: bnystrom on Nov-07-12 7:05 AM (EST)
...simply that the Nordkapp is built with better materials and quality control.
 
 
  yes..
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-07-12 7:29 AM (EST)
I would certainly agree on that. But there are some NDK boats out there that have a good solid build.

One thing I would comment on though is that the GP is inherintly less durable. The hard edges chip easily on rocks, the flat hull flexes and could be easily damaged in a rocky landing, etc. A rounded hull is inherintly much stronger.

As to surfing, I sometimes found the nose of the GP to pearl a bit, given its straight lines. Not so with the Nordkapp. On the other hand, these straight lines make it slice through chop, rather than riding up and over so it may be faster paddling into chop. GP also may weather cock a bit less.

Close call between both boats. Pros and cons to each, but overall both are great.

Again, just interested in others' opinions and experiences.
 
 
  personal preference
  Posted by: gstamer on Nov-07-12 12:53 PM (EST)
For a Newfoundland circumnav record attempt, I chose the GPro as I wanted a faster hull than the Explorer that I had been using.

You are correct that the chines will suffer damage from rocks, but it is mostly cosmetic (gel-coat). A keel strip and chine strips are a good idea in rocky areas and should help prevent damage.

GPro layup is heavy but is pretty tough - I "bottomed out" on rocks more than once, fully loaded and felt the hull flex but absolutely no damage (some flex is a good thing). By the same token, I cracked the hull on a very well-made but lighter layup in a (round hulled) Rockpool the year before in Newfoundland, when a wave trough caused me to bottom out for just a second on a rock (craaaaaack).

The GPro does like to surf (if not too overloaded). During a 93km paddle, crossing Placentia Bay in NFLD, I was occasionally getting runs up to 19 kts (20mph) in steep following seas.

I have owned a Nordkapp (HS), it's a fine kayak as well. It's largely a matter of your personal preference. I do like the "nod" to Greenland "style" in the GP, although it is far from a Greenland kayak.

Speed of both is good, but on flatwater they are significantly slower than something like an Epic 18x.

If you wear boots, make sure that you have sufficent footroom in the Gpro.

Greg Stamer
 
 
  All I can say
  Posted by: dc9mm on Nov-07-12 1:02 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Nov-07-12 1:05 PM EST --

I love my NDK Greenlander Pro. I have only had it for this one summer and I really enjoy paddling it, got it used a 2006 model. When you have following waves the thing is a speed demon. Fastest boat by far I have paddled under those conditions. I always get way ahead of the pack and have to stop and wait. It just catches the waves even little ones and gets propelled realy fast. I have never paddled a Valley Nordkapp but paddled a few other plastic Valleys Avocet and Aquanaut.Didnt care for those Valleys.

I wasnt at first sure I would like the hard chine on the Greenlander but really like it now. Great boat in ruff water in Lake Erie or Ontario. Sooo much better than the eddyline Nighthawk 16 I had before.Only thing I didnt like was the backband. Mine has the fiberglass seat not the newer foam one which I hear is nice. I removed the backband and carved a backreast out of foam which is glued to rear bulkhaed. Its narrow so no problem rolling or getting good rotation for paddling. I use greenland paddle myself. I think its a rule you have a kayak called greenlander you must use a greendland paddle.

 
 
  Nordkapp
  Posted by: wavespinner on Nov-07-12 2:03 PM (EST)
Its body of work speaks for itself. Love mine and my summation would be that it richly rewards good moves and punsishes bad.
 
 
  all good points
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-07-12 8:27 PM (EST)
agree on the speed and surfing ability of the GP. Very true.

I also like its really solid secondary and the "edgy" feel it has. It is also surprisingly maneuverable, but sometimes seems to get "locked in" when on a wave and sometimes is locked on the wrong direction.

The Nordkapp may be a little more controllable on a wave...??? It also may be a little more refined in its ability to respond to slight nuances in edging, etc. This ability to respond to slight nuances is what also makes it a bit unforgiving I think.

True that they are not as fast an an Epic on the flats, but are both reasonably fast. and in textured water they could probably stay pretty close.
 
 
  Having owned both...............
  Posted by: blackboat on Nov-07-12 9:42 PM (EST)
Nordkapp.
 
 
  doesn't the GP pro have more rocker
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-07-12 11:19 PM (EST)
...than the original?
 
 
  GP
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-08-12 5:40 AM (EST)
The Pro is longer to give it a longer waterline and more speed...I suspect it has less rocker.
 
 
  ah. thanks
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-08-12 12:29 PM (EST)
...and then there's the G Race.
 
 
  Greenlander std
  Posted by: Jay on Nov-10-12 3:44 PM (EST)
The original greenlander has a hair more rocker and
is a few inches shorter.
Both the nordkapp and GP are great boats, if you could
get away with abit less storage the nordkapp lv to
me is a nicer boat then both and easily has the speed
but turns so much nicer with all that rocker but
still so slippery and quick.
 
 
  Nordkap lv
  Posted by: jbernard on Nov-10-12 5:22 PM (EST)
is an outstanding boat. Very fast and very nimble as well. It really does not hold much weight or volume though.
 
 
  and beautiful also
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-12-12 3:30 PM (EST)
I've always liked the distinct profile.
 
 
  Didn't you ask the same Q recently?
  Posted by: pikabike on Nov-11-12 12:34 AM (EST)
Could swear that oldgeezer or oldgeezer1 already threw this one in, and responded to replies the same way.
 
 
  No.....
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Nov-14-12 4:59 AM (EST)
No I did not ask this question before. I may have asked a question about the Bahiya and how it compares to the GP (was thinking of getting a Bahiya).

And yes, I probably did respond similarly to responses. It seems that on this forum people will often critcize for questions about boats and boat handling. I personally find that asking questions and discussing how one boat compares to another is a reasonable question.
 
 
  GP With a Load????
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Jan-14-13 7:24 PM (EST)
Can anyone comment on how the GP performs with a moderate load (50-60 pounds)?

I have heard one person say it did not do well with a full on expedition load, but I am a pretty light packer. Curious to hear how it might do with a moderate load.

I have paddled the Nordkapp with this load and it seemed to be right in its element...which is not surprising. Most people have said that the Nordkapp paddles best with a load and I think that may be true.
 
 
  I can only comment on the Nordkapp...
  Posted by: holmes375 on Jan-15-13 2:57 PM (EST)
and a GP paddle - no experience with the other boat(s).

My Nordkapp is the RM version, I paddle it unloaded often on day trips using both GP and euro paddles. My body weight and day kit go about 200#. Several multi-day trips annually with a load of 60-80 pounds plus the 170# paddler using the same paddles.

Paddling locations are large western lakes in the Rockies. Wind is the order of the day, long fetch with the resultant chop.

One of the things I really like about the Nordkapp is how it shrugs off an expedition load. I can feel it in terms of maneuverability but its not a dramatic change like one discovers in most boats. I paddled WS Tempests for many years but always found them rather sluggish with a 250# load when Yellowstone lake began to act up. No such issues with the Nordkapp - it simply wants to keep on goin'. An expedition boat may seem overkill for day paddles but the Nordkapp excels in this scenario, too. Packed lightly it can be danced like few other 18' boats yet turn right around and efficiently track its way 15 miles back to the put-in. The only place I've found the Nordkapp out of place is on completely still water and air. The poor boat just kinda sits there not knowing exactly what to do in such storybook conditions. After a while it simply nods off while waiting for something a little more interesting. Fortunately, such conditions are seldom encountered in my neck o' the woods.

I like the GP for cruising in mild conditions, loaded or unloaded. Its quiet and efficient. I have about three years of regular GP use but do not consider myself and expert with one.

I'm still more comfortable with a good euro paddles, especially when things get rough. While the wind does catch them more than the GP I am able to better achieve quick direction changes and more effective braces. Cliff-like geography is common in my region and combined with the wind makes for clapotis around many a corner. I find the euro paddle noticeably more effective in this stuff for both forward momentum and maneuvering. Good solid linked strokes work well for me.

I'd rather roll with the Nordkapp with the GP but I'm fairly accomplished with the euro, too.

Either paddle will drive a loaded Nordkapp just fine. I run the euro paddle more often when loaded because years of experience set in and I just fall into my comfort zone with my particular style and cadence.

My experience and preferences undoubtedly say more about my current skill/experience level with the two paddle styles than the actual efficacy of either one when used with the Nordkapp.

The decision on which to use is painful for a Libra thus I simplify life and use both :)
 
 
  sorry..
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Jan-16-13 5:54 AM (EST)
when I asked about paddling the GP with a load I was referring to the Greenlander Pro, not a Greenland blade. My bad for not being more specific.

As to your assessment of the Nordkapp though...I think that is pretty accurate from my perspective. A little boring on flat water, but a lot of fun when it is choppy, and super capable with a load.

 
 
  Ooops! n/t
  Posted by: holmes375 on Jan-16-13 5:13 PM (EST)
 
 
  ask here
  Posted by: dc9mm on Jan-15-13 8:28 PM (EST)
You could ask in the NDK yahoo group. Not alot of posting there but when someone asks a question usually several chime in.I have a Greenlander Pro but only day trip so I have never loaded it with much plus iam only 170 lbs myself. I really love mine in ruff water and fast with even the smallest of waves from behind.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NDKOWNERS/
 
 
  And here as well...
  Posted by: recluse on Jan-16-13 10:30 AM (EST)
Also ask our neighbors on the other side of the pond who should have lots more experience with both of these boats...

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

It's always interesting to get the perspective of others...

Bill
 
 
  Boat Comparisons
  Posted by: BHMACIN on Jan-15-13 11:28 AM (EST)
I enjoy reading these.
 
 
  me too
  Posted by: svenkalmar on Jan-15-13 11:50 AM (EST)
too
 
 
  Surfing a Greenlander
  Posted by: FrankNC on Jan-16-13 6:17 PM (EST)
So how well do these things really surf on a wave with no rocker. I've yet to see anyone do even basic maneuvers on a wave with a long straight boat like this.

I can't imagine either of these boats being good in the surf, but I'm quite new to it so please let show me.

I've seen the Romany, Capella, Deplhin, and Alchemy in the surf. They have more rocker and a much shorter waterline, but still seem really hard to turn.

I will say more length and hard chines help catch the waves but you need to turn it before it pearls and that is hard for me sometimes even in my 13 foot boat.
 
 
  Surf....
  Posted by: oldgeezer1 on Jan-16-13 7:05 PM (EST)
In my original question when I asked how the GP surfed I was really referring to how it surfs wind waves and how it performs in a following sea, and not how it performs in the surf zone.

In the surf zone I would not choose a GP. The bow plugnes way too easily in waves that steep. It also tends to lock onto a course easily. It would not be my choice for the surf zone at all.

I would use it primarily as an open water boat for day paddles or for tripping.
 

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