There is no canoe that I know of that meets all my wants,but maybe somebody here knows of one? I'm thinking of a lightweight probible symetrical boat with significant rocker similar to that of a Curtis/Colden Dragonfly with the length and width of a Dragonfly,but with much less freeboard similar to a Hemlock Kestral. This boat would be for tripping on lakes and flat twisty flows and streams in the ADKs with no white water.I have or had or have paddled the following boats and none is ideal---dragonfly,kestrel,osprey,Merlin II, Flashfire,magic,Summersong,perigrine ect. The Osprey probible comes closest,but is too big and it is a bear in a quartering/tailwind. I probibly wouldn't be able to buy another boat,but winter dreams are fun while I watch the snow.
My Kestral is my favorite lake boat but is a drag in the twistys. My Flash is a blast on the twistys,but a little load limited and slow for lakes. I really like the Dragonfly,but it gets blown around in the wind more than I would like and I don't need the extra weight in the high sides. Before someone answers that one can "heal any boat to the rail and spin it in it's own length"-- been there,done that, not with a load on a 5 day trip in cold water on each of dozzens of hairpin turns.
The Kayak Wing
Kayak & Canoe Outriggers
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|Messages in this Topic|
Posted by: string on Nov-05-12 11:40 AM (EST)
Rapidfire is pretty straight tracking - |
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-05-12 2:44 PM (EST)
at least for me with the middle height seat. I paddled Magicpaddler's two days ago and it was pretty difficult for me to heel it much for any sort of quick turn. I wouldn't choose it for what we call twisty streams here in central IL. My Curtis Vagabond, however, is quite maneuverable for river use, but easy to keep straight tracking. BTW, I preferred my paddle set to 215cm when paddling the Rapidfire - longer just seemed too long.
No not them|
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-05-12 3:54 PM (EST)
I once owned an Echo. I loved to freestyle in it,but way too wide and heavy. A Wildfire would have more volume,but too much paddle effort and too wide. I have even thought of cutting down a Dragonfly,but that would eliminate the tumblehome and some people in PA would probibly lynch me! I guess as long as I'm dreaming I might as well be picky. Glenn, a what?
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-05-12 12:22 PM (EST)
It must be a kneeling style boat.I know they have made kneeling Rapids,but doesn't a Rapidfire track much like my Kestrel?-I haven't tried one.
Posted by: ritcheyp22 on Nov-05-12 8:02 PM (EST)
Hi Turtle, I have the sliding seat in my rapidfire, I can kneel, sit while using the foot pedals, single or double paddle the boat. I can kneel and heel it, it responds nicely. You know my skill level or lack of it. The boat is amazing in my opinion. You can try mine anytime your in my Colorado neighborhood or maybe I could bring it to a canoe symposium...jesse
Start cutting wood strips |
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-05-12 12:23 PM (EST)
for when you find the right plans.
Posted by: Marshall on Nov-05-12 12:28 PM (EST)
Does the 14' length rule it out?
Any comments on the Breeze? |
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-05-12 3:36 PM (EST)
Not enough rocker for the OP, but I'm tall enough to make it turn the way I want it to.
Stewart River Unity|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-05-12 12:51 PM (EST)
Wildfire? NM |
Posted by: stevet on Nov-05-12 2:43 PM (EST)
Langford Otter in KUL layup, solo seated|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-05-12 4:15 PM (EST)
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-05-12 5:09 PM (EST)
This from the OP who helped build my DragonFly!
Posted by: timburris on Nov-07-12 7:11 AM (EST)
I am definitely not knowledgeable about this, but I thought the Vagabond was similar to a symetrically rockered Kestrel? Finding a used one would be difficult, and probably too heavy for Turtle's parameters.
Great call Tim|
Posted by: stevet on Nov-07-12 7:30 AM (EST)
That boat is just what OP asks for....still sorry I sold mine
I'm selling my Curtis Vagabond.|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-07-12 9:33 AM (EST)
It weighs 40 lbs.
with the list of nice boats that didn't|
Posted by: bigspencer on Nov-06-12 1:35 PM (EST)
I don't think you have met|
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-07-12 9:07 AM (EST)
Turtle..he does have fine paddling skills. I believe he uses quite good paddles by Marc Ornstein and paddles in the Adirondacks. He is like, Matt Bowler, looking for something extremely specific in a hull.
The Rapidfire and Curtis Vagabond|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-07-12 9:49 AM (EST)
behave quite differently for me. The Vagabond, with the seat high enough for kneeling is WAY, WAY EASIER TO HEEL for turning than the Rapidfire with the medium height seat is.
Rapidfire turns and high seat|
Posted by: yknpdlr on Nov-07-12 11:21 AM (EST)
Give it up, Rich|
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-07-12 9:11 AM (EST)
Just buy a kayak.
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-07-12 10:04 AM (EST)
One year Turtle turned up with one of these I believe
What's funny about the Peeper?|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-07-12 11:08 AM (EST)
I think it looks like a nice little canoe.
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-07-12 11:26 AM (EST)
was regarding the perfect canoe.
It was a|
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-07-12 2:57 PM (EST)
Savage River Wee Lassie set up for kneeling. lightest kneeling boat by far-15#. Ya I know about the impossible dream. Maybe a "Transformer" canoe that can change shape and dementions? I owned a Kayak for about 3 weeks-my "friend" shows me the picture he took of in it from time to time to keep my humble.
Your Kestrel "is a drag in the twistys"?|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-07-12 3:21 PM (EST)
And it's set up for kneeling?
Time for Dr. Phil for Turtle|
Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Nov-08-12 12:29 AM (EST)
Let's cut through the floating bog here.
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-08-12 12:42 AM (EST)
there is room for a new boat here. Now whether a demand of one is sufficient for the cost of a new mold is up to the buyer.
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-08-12 6:32 AM (EST)
If Glenn is right...................|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-08-12 11:49 AM (EST)
I need to guide you in the purchase of your next solo canoe. I need to make sure that you pick one that I like.
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-08-12 12:56 PM (EST)
That would sure save me a lot of money|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-08-12 4:44 PM (EST)
and storage space. Too bad we live so far apart.
Wouldn't work Pete|
Posted by: thebob.com on Nov-09-12 9:52 AM (EST)
Bob, you know me so well!|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-09-12 10:55 AM (EST)
That description was way too well detailed to be only my wet dream :)
So Yanoer is a hustler?|
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-09-12 11:55 AM (EST)
I never would have guessed it. But it takes one to know one, as they say.
That is a fabulous idea!|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-09-12 12:23 PM (EST)
I'm glad you suggested it.
Posted by: thebob.com on Nov-09-12 1:14 PM (EST)
Better yet, draw lots for boat selection|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-09-12 4:51 PM (EST)
and deal with whatever boat chance selects for us :)
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-10-12 10:15 AM (EST)
if we can get a half dozen people for a six day trip, we could stipulate that everyone has to paddle a different boat each day.
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-10-12 9:23 AM (EST)
As long as everybody who goes agrees that we put in at least 20 miles a day. Five nights in a row of sleeping on gravel bars is as much as I can do.
Sorry I propose 55 miles a day|
Posted by: kayamedic on Nov-10-12 8:28 PM (EST)
and camp on a gravel bar most every night. It is quite enjoyable. I am thinking of doing the Yukon from Lake Bennett to Dawson or Circle in 2013 solo.
Posted by: pblanc on Nov-11-12 10:23 AM (EST)
I'm fine with 30 mile day trips if there is at least a little current, and I'm sure I could go 40 if I had too but beyond that is not enjoyable.
Posted by: nycmhandy on Nov-08-12 8:26 PM (EST)
I also paddle a RapidFire with a bench seat mounted as high as possible. I usually kneel or "half-kneel" (one leg forward, foot on the footbrace). I like the boat, though it is not as nimble as my WildFire and the freeboard in the middle is a little low for me on the windblown Hudson.
'twas a medium height seat in the Rapid|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-08-12 11:00 PM (EST)
that I paddled a few days ago - basically a couple inches off the bottom - very low center of gravity.
Posted by: rblturtle on Nov-09-12 7:10 AM (EST)
I have paddled that portion of the Oss(one of my favorite paddles) either with the traverse or up and back in; 2 Flashfires,Swift Osprey,Bell Merlin II,Savage River Wee lassie,and a Stowe 16'tanden-solo. They all did it,but the Flashfires loved it and want to go back. Actually,the ADK the trip starting on windy open Little Tupper lake through to to and down the twisty Osswagochie is just the kind of trip where I wish for this dream boat. Here's a idea. What about a nice narrow turney boat with a small lite simple extendable skeg? Not a rudder, and with composites and ingenuity it could be lite and fold away discretly or even be removable for the twisty sections. It could be alongside the stern so the hull could be un modified.
Over/on the stern skeg?|
Posted by: ricknriver on Nov-09-12 8:47 AM (EST)
My new to me Easy Ryder Dolphin yak has a simple over the stern skeg and like it so far. Thin metal (yak rudder-like) blade in a simple frame, wider at the bottom than top so its counter balanced and deployed by its weight from a line to a small flat cockpit jam cleat - very simple. Down it tracks very straight on all points of wind, up very maneuverable, in between can be tuned as you like. Simple to remove too. Could bend it though if stern kisses a rock hard. Thinking about making one for my UL canoe. Just thoughts, R
I have some thoughts on a drop skeg |
Posted by: ezwater on Nov-11-12 12:12 AM (EST)
with a trailing wishbone frame hinged on the gunwales. I've wanted to do it for our traveling solo/tandem, our 15' highly rockered MR Synergy. It is a very cranky tandem, and when I take my spouse out on a lake below the Tetons, a drop skeg would allow the hull to proceed more efficiently.
GRB Rambler , PB Rapidfire|
Posted by: jrw on Nov-11-12 7:58 AM (EST)
Paddle that Rambler so I can get some|
Posted by: Yanoer on Nov-11-12 11:43 AM (EST)
feedback on it. Looks like a neat little boat.
Posted by: nycmhandy on Nov-11-12 9:06 PM (EST)
I hadn't thought about the possibility that a skeg box would make the stern more vulnerable in whitewater than it would otherwise be. You mean because the skeg box locally stiffens the hull? Or do you mean that the hull itself would be okay but the skeg box would be damaged by impact transmitted through the hull?