Assume you are touring a surfy coast in a ruddered boat. Think Freya in her Epic 18X or her new Point 65. Think Caffyn in his ruddered Nordkapp around Australia. Anyway, you have to land through difficult surf.
Do you leave the rudder down before survival landing, or retract it onto the deck?
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Posted by: Peter-CA on Nov-01-12 12:34 AM (EST)
Retract, unless the conditions are such that I would really need the rudder (like a strong side wind). Even then, I'd lean towards retract.
Posted by: dajarr on Nov-07-12 12:57 PM (EST)
Not only will a deployed rudder (or skeg) be more likely to be damaged, but it also makes the boat more difficult to maneuver and correct coarse.
Why don't you email Paul and ask?|
Posted by: seadart on Nov-01-12 12:39 AM (EST)
He's a very approachable guy, but I don't think he suffers fools lightly.
Posted by: rjd9999 on Nov-01-12 3:56 AM (EST)
At least, that is my opinion.
Posted by: roanguy on Nov-01-12 5:47 AM (EST)
I don't use it in white water rivers either
retract rudder or skeg|
Posted by: CapeFear on Nov-01-12 9:13 AM (EST)
I suggest against having either deployed in surf landings. A deployed skeg slammed up from the bottom tends to kink skeg cables quite easily, so you lose your ability to control them from the cockpit. I think it's fine to use skegs and rudders to assist you in controlling a kayak. I don't think it's fine for skegs and rudders to be the difference between control and out of control. And using either during surf landings is a quick way to cause issues. So I suggest learning and practicing your surf landings without.
The folks with that level of skill...|
Posted by: Celia on Nov-01-12 9:19 AM (EST)
have long since mastered landing in tough conditions without any tracking aid. For that matter, they have mastered handling anything on the water without such help. They had to be able to, though at some point I think Freya alluded to that being a more difficult chore with the Epic than when she did a major trip in an NDK Explorer.
no pro/con rudder discussion|
Posted by: gjf12 on Nov-01-12 12:43 PM (EST)
I did not intend this discussion to be pro/con on rudders. Rather, assuming one is using a rudder, whether to deploy it or not in difficult but necessary surf landings.
Posted by: nickjc on Nov-01-12 1:57 PM (EST)
no benefit in a surf landing in most sea kayaks. If you are coming in on the back of the wave, the rudder will make it harder to back paddle and stay straight. If you are coming in on the face, your stern is hopefully out of the water. If you are broaching, the rudder hinders side surfing and just makes you more likely to window-shade. In all cases if your boat gets pushed sideways or backwards once up on the beach your rudder will possibly get damaged.
Question is vague|
Posted by: Celia on Nov-01-12 6:19 PM (EST)
I was joking ....|
Posted by: seadart on Nov-01-12 10:56 PM (EST)
but he does answer his email.
Posted by: Celia on Nov-01-12 11:30 PM (EST)
I didn't get it. Sorry. But then a lot of these really major folks are still very much real. I can't see McCaffrey responding to a question that seems really foolish, but there probably exists a way to phrase this that is reasonable.
No Michael Jordan's in kayaking|
Posted by: gstamer on Nov-05-12 10:44 PM (EST)
One great thing about kayaking is that most everyone is approachable (at all levels) -- and if they're not, then you probably wouldn't want to waste your breath on them anyway.
Actual information in that link ...|
Posted by: seadart on Nov-06-12 12:20 AM (EST)
from two approachable paddlers ....
Another thought: foot controls|
Posted by: trilliumlake on Nov-01-12 2:01 PM (EST)
I agree with the general opinion that when landing in surf you should be able to control your boat without steering aids. Also, when landing you s/b riding in on the back of the wave, not surfing, so the question kinda becomes moot.
Posted by: gstamer on Nov-01-12 5:40 PM (EST)
I retract the rudder or skeg for a surf landing. Usually I deal with nasty surf by allowing the kayak to go into a slow, controlled broach, leaning into the wave, and riding in sideways. Having the rudder/skeg down can easily cause damage when the kayak touches bottom and washes sideways up the beach, or if you wash high up the beach and then start to slide down.
Ride it in upside-down|
Posted by: pikabike on Nov-06-12 12:16 AM (EST)
Rudder or skeg engaged won't be trashed (as much)
How about this question back? |
Posted by: kwikle on Nov-12-12 3:03 PM (EST)
In order to provide a good answer, how about a bit of a question back that can help you answer your own question.
I'd rather think about freya than paul|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Nov-12-12 3:27 PM (EST)
Posted by: old_user on Nov-12-12 3:55 PM (EST)
If you broach then the rudder will be a big problem. Too much of a risk.
Posted by: abc on Nov-12-12 4:43 PM (EST)
The answer is unanimous: retract!
I don't think the boat Freya paddled..|
Posted by: Bob_d on Nov-14-12 9:08 PM (EST)
.. around Australia had a retractable rudder. I think it is built in to the stern of the Epic much like the (Australian) Mirage Sea Kayak.
Posted by: gstamer on Nov-14-12 10:01 PM (EST)
While that is correct for the start of her trip, while underway she was outfitted with the new "Trackmaster Plus" rudder. The newer rudder has a carbon blade that retracts like a skeg, into the rudder housing, and drops down to get a "deeper bite". It gives better steering response. The whole rudder can also be "locked out" (no movement) for paddling in reverse, etc.
Posted by: Bob_d on Nov-14-12 10:22 PM (EST)
.. I have to swap rudders on my Mirage (only takes a minute or two)to get the same result.