Keen sandle traction? Ideas? - Canoeing / Kayaking

Table of Contents

Keen sandle traction? Ideas? - rblturtle - Oct-03-12 11:34 AM
- honestly - radiomix - Oct-03-12 12:22 PM
- Feel Like Experimenting? - Kudzu - Oct-03-12 12:51 PM
- Siping - Lanky189 - Oct-03-12 1:43 PM
  - Astral Buoyancy Brewer - Marshall - Oct-03-12 2:13 PM
  - hmm - slushpaddler - Oct-03-12 3:08 PM
    - similar lines ... - onnopaddle - Oct-03-12 4:17 PM
- OK-I give up - rblturtle - Oct-05-12 1:35 PM
- Bean Explorer Sandals; traction - Glenn_MacGrady - Oct-05-12 4:19 PM
- Felt - gibsonra - Oct-06-12 8:49 AM
  - Thumbs up for felt - clarion - Oct-06-12 9:03 AM
    - Disadvantages and controversie over felt - Glenn_MacGrady - Oct-06-12 9:59 AM
      - If the put in or take out is treacherous - clarion - Oct-06-12 11:22 AM
        
        Just to explore this a little more - Glenn_MacGrady - Oct-06-12 11:59 AM
        
        Fishermen/ladies have dealt with this - rpg51 - Oct-06-12 12:42 PM
      - wow, good point about aquatic invasives - slushpaddler - Oct-12-12 12:34 PM
- More info - rblturtle - Oct-06-12 4:30 PM
  - Some day - rpg51 - Oct-06-12 6:02 PM
- Keen done me wrong - mr_canoehead - Oct-07-12 8:02 PM
  - I agree - rpg51 - Oct-07-12 8:48 PM
  - I have had my Keen H2s for years. - string - Oct-11-12 8:50 PM
    - Thats good but do you wear them in - kayamedic - Oct-11-12 8:52 PM
      - I do - slushpaddler - Oct-12-12 12:32 PM
- Look for Vibram - kayamedic - Oct-07-12 9:03 PM
- Vibram 5 Fingers - 123Abuelo - Oct-08-12 7:51 AM
  - They work - carldelo - Oct-11-12 11:06 PM
    - Sell them? To whom? - tktoo - Oct-12-12 8:57 AM
      - Well - carldelo - Oct-12-12 1:22 PM
    - Which model? - rblturtle - Oct-12-12 11:18 AM
      - I think - carldelo - Oct-12-12 1:24 PM
        
        Well - rblturtle - Oct-13-12 2:51 PM
- unintended consequences - rblturtle - Oct-18-12 1:06 PM
- Siping. - kybishop - Oct-20-12 1:16 PM

Messages in this Topic

  honestly
  Posted by: radiomix on Oct-03-12 12:22 PM (EST)

If really yet to find a pair of sandal type water shoes that get good traction on the really slippery rocks. My keens and current chacos are marginal, and my new tevas are about the same. Chaco used to make a water sole that was amazing, but they phased it out, or its special order.

Ryan L.

  Feel Like Experimenting?
  Posted by: Kudzu on Oct-03-12 12:51 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Oct-03-12 1:01 PM EST --

I recently discovered the virtues of Shoe Goo. If you have some old shoes that are near the end of their life, try smearing some Shoe Goo on the soles and see if it helps. Maybe even sprinkle some sand on the stuff to add traction. I recently patched a gash in a road bike tire with the stuff. So far so good.

Come to think of it, I once ordered some boots through work that were supposed to prevent slipping on ice. It was nothing but regular rubber boots with something like sandy Shoe Goo smeared on the bottoms.

  Siping
  Posted by: Lanky189 on Oct-03-12 1:43 PM (EST)

My merrels have siping which is many many lateral slits that allow the rubber to grip the rocks. I rarely slip if ever. Im no mountain goat but other paddlers with lesser shoes know the difference.

  Astral Buoyancy Brewer
  Posted by: Marshall on Oct-03-12 2:13 PM (EST)

Looks terrestrial enough to use daily non-boating purposes. Five-10 makes the sole out of it's Stealth Rubber so it's just about stick enough to make you feel like Spider Man on slime covered rocks. Not saying I know how Spider Man would feel on slime covered rocks mind you, just a figure (albeit muzzy one) of speech.

Lower dockside style called the Porter and a taller heavier hiker boot (The Rassler) coming next year too.

See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com

  hmm
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-03-12 3:08 PM (EST)

I am thinking a carefully guided dremel and about 15 minutes.

  similar lines ...
  Posted by: onnopaddle on Oct-03-12 4:17 PM (EST)

wire wheel them ?

  OK-I give up
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-05-12 1:35 PM (EST)

I guess my best bet would be a new pair of sandles with a great gripping sole. I really like the covered toe open rest sandle type like my Keens.I don't want a water sneaker type. suggestions?
Turtle

  Bean Explorer Sandals; traction
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-05-12 4:19 PM (EST)

I compared the Bean Explorer sandals head-to-head against various Keen sandals a couple of years ago, and thought the Beans won on every count for both a land and canoeing sandal -- flexibility, weight, comfort and cost.

I now have two pair and wear them year round.

As to traction, that's an ambiguous and complex thing. The way shoe soles create traction for wet boat decks (e.g., sipes), fishing waders (e.g., felt), wet rocks, wet trails, dry trails, etc. -- can all vary and not be so good for one traction scenario as another.

I like soles that are flexible enough to bend for kneel canoeing, portage short distances, dry fast, and be good as casual walking shoes. The Bean Explorers meet those tests for me, and are currently on sale until Oct. 8 for $54.

  Felt
  Posted by: gibsonra on Oct-06-12 8:49 AM (EST)

If they are mainly for water consider the felt that fly fisherman use on waders. It's unreal and glues easily.

  Thumbs up for felt
  Posted by: clarion on Oct-06-12 9:03 AM (EST)

I had a pair of Dagger paddle shoes that had partial felt bottoms and they were fantastic. No slippage on rocks, ever. I never thought about buying felt and putting it on other paddle shoes. I think I'm going to try it now that you suggested it. Thanks.

  Disadvantages and controversie over felt
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-06-12 9:59 AM (EST)

Not all felt is the same. There is wool felt, fur felt and different ways of making felt.

Felt is very common in fishing waders, but fishers spend hours standing and walking around in water. Paddlers don't. NRS stopped marketing their felt booties except for the felt-sole Kicker, which is still available.

Everyone agrees felt wears out quickly and is no good for walking or hiking, and is somewhat of a pain to replace frequently.

Most controversially, felt-soled shoes are now scientifically implicated in the transfer of aquatic invasive species between water bodies, and are proposed to be banned in parts of the world:

http://stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php

  If the put in or take out is treacherous
  Posted by: clarion on Oct-06-12 11:22 AM (EST)

.... the amount of time spent on the rocks doesn't matter, especially carrying a heavy boat. If I get hurt at this stuff it will probably be scuttling over slippery rocks. Felt is good insurance.

  Just to explore this a little more
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-06-12 11:59 AM (EST)

First of all, the topic is high traction sandals. I'm not sure there are any felt-soled sandals, but it could be a good experiment to glue felt on the bottom of some old sandals and see if it works.

I had felt-soled booties for a couple of years when I was an avid WW boater in the 80's. They wore out fast and I didn't replace them with another felt pair. I really never noticed any in-water traction difference.

That brings us to the treacherous put-in/take-out scenario. There are some of these if you are off the beaten path. But felt is only good (allegedly) for the wet and slimy rocks that are under the water or near the water's edge. The treacherous part -- steep inclined, rocks, roots, slippery soil, slippery scree, loose soil, muck -- is usually above the water line. In those areas of treachery, my preference is the kind of sole on a good hiking boot -- not felt, which I think would be an inferior material with which to lug a heavy canoe.

The soles of my NRS Attack Shoes served me very well, in the boat and in all land and water conditions, on a six-day solo paddle with 8 miles of endurance portaging this summer. My Bean Explorer sandals would have worked also. A thin soled water shoe or felt bottom would not have worked well on the portage trails or roads. I didn't want to have to switch off using different shoes.

(Tangent: the Attack Shoe has a terrible, inflexible instep for kneeling canoeists unless you do the surgery I recommend in my comment on the NRS site.)

  Fishermen/ladies have dealt with this
  Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-06-12 12:42 PM (EST)

issue for generations. The history is the felt soles took over the market for a long long time and they do work very well and stick to slime covered rock extremely well. But as is pointed out above, in the last few years felt soles have been banned in many places (including Vermont I know) and so they are not even being manufactured anymore. What has replaced them are soles made of special "rubber" formulations that are soft and stick on rock reasonably well. Also, there are souls of this new material with studs, not unlike you see in studded snow tires. If you look around at good fly fishing stores/websites you will find various options.

Personally when Kayaking I wear the NRS Neoprene booties with rubber soles. There are pretty good. But when I am canoeing I wear Tingley rubbers - available in different heights. On trips I wear the ones that come up to just below the knee. These are cheap. They last several seasons and the grip surprisingly well. They are easy to slip on and off over sneakers or whatever you ordinarily wear. I use them at home in the winter when I go out in snow to shovel or snow blow. They work great for that too.

Just some ideas.

  wow, good point about aquatic invasives
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-12-12 12:34 PM (EST)

transfer. If this is a genuine problem, and it sounds like it is, it can't be overstated.

  More info
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-06-12 4:30 PM (EST)

I use my Keens for everything in warm weather including up to 4 mile carrys so felt or glue probibly won't last. On trips with long carrys I bring only one pair of shoes to keep weight down. Thanks for the ideas.
Turtle

  Some day
  Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-06-12 6:02 PM (EST)

I'll start going on trips in warm weather again. We've been tripping in May and October for years to keep away from the red necked bi peds. A warm weather trip would be sooooo nice.

  Keen done me wrong
  Posted by: mr_canoehead on Oct-07-12 8:02 PM (EST)

I bought a pair of those sandals at a year-end clearance sale, and used them the next year. In very short order they seemed to disolve - the stitching came out of the upper and the sole de-laminated. I contacted Keen and they told me too bad, as I didn't have my receipt.

I like the design, but since this experience (and I've talked to several who also had durability issues), I'll stick with old sneakers.

As for traction on wet rock - if it is covered with vegetation/algae, it will be slippery regardless. I like a sneaker or something like a bean boot just so I can feel the shape of the rock underfoot.

  I agree
  Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-07-12 8:48 PM (EST)

I have to say, I would be afraid to wear sandals on a canoe or kayak trip. I suppose maybe I might wear them in camp - but even then I am so darn clumsy there would be a high likelihood of injured feet.

  I have had my Keen H2s for years.
  Posted by: string on Oct-11-12 8:50 PM (EST)

They are faded and beat up and keep on keeping on.

  Thats good but do you wear them in
  Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-11-12 8:52 PM (EST)

Canadian Shield country the heart and soul of head cracking fungi? I believe the OP was about grippiness, not longevity.

OMG..I am becoming a mini g2d.

  I do
  Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-12-12 12:32 PM (EST)

four years and counting, two weeklong kayak trips, two backcountry hiking trips.

  Look for Vibram
  Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-07-12 9:03 PM (EST)

soles.

I am guessing you need traction over the dreaded northern black lichen. Its like walking on vaseline when wet.

I have Keen Newports and they are marginal on lichen. I switched to Merrell watershoes. I have older Maipos that have Vibram soles.

The same thing that allows hikers to adhere to slippery granite shelves when wet ought to work for you.

Merrell does have a Vibram soled Keen Newport style sandal.

  Vibram 5 Fingers
  Posted by: 123Abuelo on Oct-08-12 7:51 AM (EST)

Has anyone tried a shoe like these?

http://www.rei.com/product/805275/vibram-fivefingers-treksport-multisport-shoes-mens

Seems like it would be ideal.

  They work
  Posted by: carldelo on Oct-11-12 11:06 PM (EST)

I liked mine, they were great inside a somewhat restrictive SOF. The sole is a great combination of protection and flexibility. But if your foot and toes aren't the right proportions, they don't work. My two smallest toes were always falling out, so I finally had to sell them.

  Sell them? To whom?
  Posted by: tktoo on Oct-12-12 8:57 AM (EST)

Wait, nevermind, I don't really want to know.

  Well
  Posted by: carldelo on Oct-12-12 1:22 PM (EST)

I sold them to someone with normal toes. They didn't have cooties, cuz I washed them well.

  Which model?
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-12-12 11:18 AM (EST)

Which model 5 finger did you get? The ones that are for water don't have much tread.The ones with tread arn't recomended for water.
Turtle

  I think
  Posted by: carldelo on Oct-12-12 1:24 PM (EST)

it was the water model with neo uppers, KSO maybe? I bought them at NY Kayak several years back, and the model may be different now. There wasn't a high-profile tread, but I remember them being fairly grippy.

  Well
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-13-12 2:51 PM (EST)

Well, I broke down and ordered some 5 finger KSO's. I go barefoot a lot anyway and always wished for better "skin traction". They won't work for long carrys,but might be just the thing for me to monkey around on rocks,and tree obstructions on local creeks. I won't know how they work till next year.
Turtle

  unintended consequences
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-18-12 1:06 PM (EST)

I recieved my Five Fingers Vibram KSO's this AM. Have worn them since then. As a country boy who grew up barefoot, I think they will be great for climbing over treejam obsticals with monkey feet. For 4mi carrys??
Turtle

  Siping.
  Posted by: kybishop on Oct-20-12 1:16 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Oct-20-12 1:21 PM EST --

I saw a mention of siping in this thread. My Keens do have siping in the tread and they get great traction in the wet slippery stuff. Mine are the original Keen Newport sandal, bought them when they first came out. That was sometime around 2003. Still wearing them and will wear them just about year round depending on what I am doing.

I tend to repair my stuff till they can't be realistically repaired anymore. Use blue tube Barge cement to repair where coming apart. Get it at the local leather/shoe shop downtown.

Siping works wonders on the wet slick stuff. Same goes with tires.

Good luck.

	honestly Posted by: radiomix on Oct-03-12 12:22 PM (EST)
	If really yet to find a pair of sandal type water shoes that get good traction on the really slippery rocks. My keens and current chacos are marginal, and my new tevas are about the same. Chaco used to make a water sole that was amazing, but they phased it out, or its special order. Ryan L.

	Feel Like Experimenting? Posted by: Kudzu on Oct-03-12 12:51 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Oct-03-12 1:01 PM EST -- I recently discovered the virtues of Shoe Goo. If you have some old shoes that are near the end of their life, try smearing some Shoe Goo on the soles and see if it helps. Maybe even sprinkle some sand on the stuff to add traction. I recently patched a gash in a road bike tire with the stuff. So far so good. Come to think of it, I once ordered some boots through work that were supposed to prevent slipping on ice. It was nothing but regular rubber boots with something like sandy Shoe Goo smeared on the bottoms.

	Siping Posted by: Lanky189 on Oct-03-12 1:43 PM (EST)
	My merrels have siping which is many many lateral slits that allow the rubber to grip the rocks. I rarely slip if ever. Im no mountain goat but other paddlers with lesser shoes know the difference.

	Astral Buoyancy Brewer Posted by: Marshall on Oct-03-12 2:13 PM (EST)
	Looks terrestrial enough to use daily non-boating purposes. Five-10 makes the sole out of it's Stealth Rubber so it's just about stick enough to make you feel like Spider Man on slime covered rocks. Not saying I know how Spider Man would feel on slime covered rocks mind you, just a figure (albeit muzzy one) of speech. Lower dockside style called the Porter and a taller heavier hiker boot (The Rassler) coming next year too. See you on the water, Marshall The River Connection, Inc. Hyde Park, NY www.the-river-connection.com

	hmm Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-03-12 3:08 PM (EST)
	I am thinking a carefully guided dremel and about 15 minutes.

	similar lines ... Posted by: onnopaddle on Oct-03-12 4:17 PM (EST)
	wire wheel them ?

	OK-I give up Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-05-12 1:35 PM (EST)
	I guess my best bet would be a new pair of sandles with a great gripping sole. I really like the covered toe open rest sandle type like my Keens.I don't want a water sneaker type. suggestions? Turtle

	Bean Explorer Sandals; traction Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-05-12 4:19 PM (EST)
	I compared the Bean Explorer sandals head-to-head against various Keen sandals a couple of years ago, and thought the Beans won on every count for both a land and canoeing sandal -- flexibility, weight, comfort and cost. I now have two pair and wear them year round. As to traction, that's an ambiguous and complex thing. The way shoe soles create traction for wet boat decks (e.g., sipes), fishing waders (e.g., felt), wet rocks, wet trails, dry trails, etc. -- can all vary and not be so good for one traction scenario as another. I like soles that are flexible enough to bend for kneel canoeing, portage short distances, dry fast, and be good as casual walking shoes. The Bean Explorers meet those tests for me, and are currently on sale until Oct. 8 for $54.

	Felt Posted by: gibsonra on Oct-06-12 8:49 AM (EST)
	If they are mainly for water consider the felt that fly fisherman use on waders. It's unreal and glues easily.

	Thumbs up for felt Posted by: clarion on Oct-06-12 9:03 AM (EST)
	I had a pair of Dagger paddle shoes that had partial felt bottoms and they were fantastic. No slippage on rocks, ever. I never thought about buying felt and putting it on other paddle shoes. I think I'm going to try it now that you suggested it. Thanks.

	Disadvantages and controversie over felt Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-06-12 9:59 AM (EST)
	Not all felt is the same. There is wool felt, fur felt and different ways of making felt. Felt is very common in fishing waders, but fishers spend hours standing and walking around in water. Paddlers don't. NRS stopped marketing their felt booties except for the felt-sole Kicker, which is still available. Everyone agrees felt wears out quickly and is no good for walking or hiking, and is somewhat of a pain to replace frequently. Most controversially, felt-soled shoes are now scientifically implicated in the transfer of aquatic invasive species between water bodies, and are proposed to be banned in parts of the world: http://stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php

	If the put in or take out is treacherous Posted by: clarion on Oct-06-12 11:22 AM (EST)
	.... the amount of time spent on the rocks doesn't matter, especially carrying a heavy boat. If I get hurt at this stuff it will probably be scuttling over slippery rocks. Felt is good insurance.

	Just to explore this a little more Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-06-12 11:59 AM (EST)
	First of all, the topic is high traction sandals. I'm not sure there are any felt-soled sandals, but it could be a good experiment to glue felt on the bottom of some old sandals and see if it works. I had felt-soled booties for a couple of years when I was an avid WW boater in the 80's. They wore out fast and I didn't replace them with another felt pair. I really never noticed any in-water traction difference. That brings us to the treacherous put-in/take-out scenario. There are some of these if you are off the beaten path. But felt is only good (allegedly) for the wet and slimy rocks that are under the water or near the water's edge. The treacherous part -- steep inclined, rocks, roots, slippery soil, slippery scree, loose soil, muck -- is usually above the water line. In those areas of treachery, my preference is the kind of sole on a good hiking boot -- not felt, which I think would be an inferior material with which to lug a heavy canoe. The soles of my NRS Attack Shoes served me very well, in the boat and in all land and water conditions, on a six-day solo paddle with 8 miles of endurance portaging this summer. My Bean Explorer sandals would have worked also. A thin soled water shoe or felt bottom would not have worked well on the portage trails or roads. I didn't want to have to switch off using different shoes. (Tangent: the Attack Shoe has a terrible, inflexible instep for kneeling canoeists unless you do the surgery I recommend in my comment on the NRS site.)

	Fishermen/ladies have dealt with this Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-06-12 12:42 PM (EST)
	issue for generations. The history is the felt soles took over the market for a long long time and they do work very well and stick to slime covered rock extremely well. But as is pointed out above, in the last few years felt soles have been banned in many places (including Vermont I know) and so they are not even being manufactured anymore. What has replaced them are soles made of special "rubber" formulations that are soft and stick on rock reasonably well. Also, there are souls of this new material with studs, not unlike you see in studded snow tires. If you look around at good fly fishing stores/websites you will find various options. Personally when Kayaking I wear the NRS Neoprene booties with rubber soles. There are pretty good. But when I am canoeing I wear Tingley rubbers - available in different heights. On trips I wear the ones that come up to just below the knee. These are cheap. They last several seasons and the grip surprisingly well. They are easy to slip on and off over sneakers or whatever you ordinarily wear. I use them at home in the winter when I go out in snow to shovel or snow blow. They work great for that too. Just some ideas.

	wow, good point about aquatic invasives Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-12-12 12:34 PM (EST)
	transfer. If this is a genuine problem, and it sounds like it is, it can't be overstated.

	More info Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-06-12 4:30 PM (EST)
	I use my Keens for everything in warm weather including up to 4 mile carrys so felt or glue probibly won't last. On trips with long carrys I bring only one pair of shoes to keep weight down. Thanks for the ideas. Turtle

	Some day Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-06-12 6:02 PM (EST)
	I'll start going on trips in warm weather again. We've been tripping in May and October for years to keep away from the red necked bi peds. A warm weather trip would be sooooo nice.

	Keen done me wrong Posted by: mr_canoehead on Oct-07-12 8:02 PM (EST)
	I bought a pair of those sandals at a year-end clearance sale, and used them the next year. In very short order they seemed to disolve - the stitching came out of the upper and the sole de-laminated. I contacted Keen and they told me too bad, as I didn't have my receipt. I like the design, but since this experience (and I've talked to several who also had durability issues), I'll stick with old sneakers. As for traction on wet rock - if it is covered with vegetation/algae, it will be slippery regardless. I like a sneaker or something like a bean boot just so I can feel the shape of the rock underfoot.

	I agree Posted by: rpg51 on Oct-07-12 8:48 PM (EST)
	I have to say, I would be afraid to wear sandals on a canoe or kayak trip. I suppose maybe I might wear them in camp - but even then I am so darn clumsy there would be a high likelihood of injured feet.

	I have had my Keen H2s for years. Posted by: string on Oct-11-12 8:50 PM (EST)
	They are faded and beat up and keep on keeping on.

	Thats good but do you wear them in Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-11-12 8:52 PM (EST)
	Canadian Shield country the heart and soul of head cracking fungi? I believe the OP was about grippiness, not longevity. OMG..I am becoming a mini g2d.

	I do Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-12-12 12:32 PM (EST)
	four years and counting, two weeklong kayak trips, two backcountry hiking trips.

	Look for Vibram Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-07-12 9:03 PM (EST)
	soles. I am guessing you need traction over the dreaded northern black lichen. Its like walking on vaseline when wet. I have Keen Newports and they are marginal on lichen. I switched to Merrell watershoes. I have older Maipos that have Vibram soles. The same thing that allows hikers to adhere to slippery granite shelves when wet ought to work for you. Merrell does have a Vibram soled Keen Newport style sandal.

	Vibram 5 Fingers Posted by: 123Abuelo on Oct-08-12 7:51 AM (EST)
	Has anyone tried a shoe like these? http://www.rei.com/product/805275/vibram-fivefingers-treksport-multisport-shoes-mens Seems like it would be ideal.

	They work Posted by: carldelo on Oct-11-12 11:06 PM (EST)
	I liked mine, they were great inside a somewhat restrictive SOF. The sole is a great combination of protection and flexibility. But if your foot and toes aren't the right proportions, they don't work. My two smallest toes were always falling out, so I finally had to sell them.

	Sell them? To whom? Posted by: tktoo on Oct-12-12 8:57 AM (EST)
	Wait, nevermind, I don't really want to know.

	Well Posted by: carldelo on Oct-12-12 1:22 PM (EST)
	I sold them to someone with normal toes. They didn't have cooties, cuz I washed them well.

	Which model? Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-12-12 11:18 AM (EST)
	Which model 5 finger did you get? The ones that are for water don't have much tread.The ones with tread arn't recomended for water. Turtle

	I think Posted by: carldelo on Oct-12-12 1:24 PM (EST)
	it was the water model with neo uppers, KSO maybe? I bought them at NY Kayak several years back, and the model may be different now. There wasn't a high-profile tread, but I remember them being fairly grippy.

	Well Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-13-12 2:51 PM (EST)
	Well, I broke down and ordered some 5 finger KSO's. I go barefoot a lot anyway and always wished for better "skin traction". They won't work for long carrys,but might be just the thing for me to monkey around on rocks,and tree obstructions on local creeks. I won't know how they work till next year. Turtle