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  Next Solo Canoe like a larger Merlin 2 ?
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-02-12 8:54 AM (EST)
   Category: Canoes 

I'm currently paddling a Bell Merlin 2 and a kevlar version of the Wenonah Rendezvous and have demoed a kevlar Argosy. I've been paddling solos most of my life including a Summersong that I loved and once paddled upstream through Santa Elena Canyon (to the Rockslide). I am 6'6" tall and 235 lbs and yeah I know the Merlin 2 is too small for me but I am in an area with little access to quality solos and I bought it used knowing I could paddle it and resell it for little or no loss if I want. I love how the Merlin tracks when paddling on one side as I kneel with little need for switching sides. But at my size it is a bit twitchy when I need to sit feet forward for a while to stretch and the seat is set high for knealing with big feet. The Rendezvous fits me better but is 49lbs with wood trim and seems not to track quite as well paddling on one side. The Argosy was fun but again, twitchy when sitting since it had no footbrace. Any ideas: kevlar Rockstar?, Shearwater, Perigrine? I'd like to know what Charlie Wilson and others might suggest as a boat that would paddle like an upsized Merlin 2. Thanks

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Messages in this Topic

 

  Not the Peregrine
  Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-02-12 10:08 AM (EST)
Dimensions are close to the Merlin II. At one time I had both and the Peregrine in a subjective opinion seemed edgier.

Rockstar if you can find one. Also check out the Swift Keewaydin 15 though it is of similar size..just tad wider.

Shearwater was designed for bigger folks too.

Sitting heeled over is just unstable..one tends to lean ones head over the side. That does not happen kneeling. Those that sit successfully and heel the boat have a lower seat . Your dilemna is going to be that then your feet do not fit.
 
 
  Some thoughts
  Posted by: pblanc on Oct-02-12 12:57 PM (EST)
The Merlin II does feel a bit twitchy when sitting if the seat is set high enough to allow heel clearance when kneeling. Mine feels that way to me and I suspect your feet are bigger than mine.

It sounds as if you want a canoe with pretty good efficiency that you can both sit and kneel in. If you were only going to sit, you might go with a Magic (if you came across one) but that strikes me as a boat that was intended to be paddled sitting.

The Wenonah Prism would no doubt feel more stable and is pretty efficient, but it too is usually paddled sit and switch, although I knew at least one fellow who paddles one kneeling. It is a rather larger boat though, a full foot and a half longer.

You might consider the Swift Osprey. That canoe feels a bit more stable to me when sitting than does the Merlin II and it is pretty efficient to paddle.
 
 
  Shearwater, Morningstar, small tandem
  Posted by: Glenn_MacGrady on Oct-02-12 1:16 PM (EST)
I found the Peregrine slightly less twitchy and slightly less turnable than the Merlin 2, but they are both so close in hull design dimensions that I don't think the Peregrine would give you much of a change in feel.

You are a big guy. Of the Swift solo models, I think the Shearwater would best meet your needs for load capacity and seated stability. The new Keewaydin 15 has less load capacity than the Shearwater and a narrower water line.

To get seated stability in a relatively efficient solo you really need a waterline width of at least 28", and even than can feel twitchy to some paddlers at some weights when sitting, up to about 33", which should feel stable seated to just about most paddlers. The 28" width again suggests the Shearwater to me. Swift currently has nice factory sales going on.

The Swift Raven and NC Super Nova are larger capacity solos, but they have more the rep of being river canoes that are more designed for turning than tracking.

Your other alternatives are small tandems, which are often soloed by larger paddlers and have been much discussed here. Some candidates would be the Bell Morningstar, Hemlock Eaglet and MR 15' Reflection (but that may only be in Royalex).

The Bell Rockstar has reasonable specs for what you seem to want, but I have no experience with it and have never even seen one.
 
 
  Maybe clarify your paddling style?
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Oct-02-12 2:18 PM (EST)
I can't be much help on picking the right boat in your case, but I was left wondering exactly what kind of paddling you wish to do, and I bet others are unsure too. You said...

"I love how the Merlin tracks when paddling on one side as I kneel with little need for switching sides"

... and of the two halves of the sentence, neither makes sense in the context provided by the other, so I can't tell if you are a traditional paddler (paddling mostly one side for a while and switching mainly to give the other side a rest) or sit-and-switch (switching every few strokes to control your course). To clarify my confusion, a traditional paddler paddling mostly on one side at any given time would not refer to the boat as having "little need to switch sides" because there simply wouldn't be any need to switch sides during normal cruising.

Clarifying which paddling method you use would surely affect boat choice. If you are a traditional paddler, you can deal with a wide range of degrees of tracking with very little change in technique, but if you are a sit-and-switcher (or kneel-and-switcher), you probably don't really want a boat that tracks less strongly than your Merlin II. I just figured that info might affect what boats other people suggest.
 
 
  Thanks for the responses re Merlin 2
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-02-12 9:57 PM (EST)
Thanks to all who were kind enough to respond! Guideboatguy asked me to clarify my paddling style. My style is not sit and switch, but kneeling and paddling on one side with switching only to rest muscles, not for course correction which I do with a J or the occasional underwater recovery. But after an hour or so kneeling, I do need to sit for a while and get my feet out in front to prevent or relieve muscle cramps, etc. (I'm not so young and flexible anymore). Thus to stay in the boat for a long time without coming ashore, I need a boat that has enough stability to allow me to change positions without coming ashore. The Merlin 2 is not tippy at all for me when I am kneeling. Its only tippy when I shift to sitting, especially with seat set high for my large feet. But I really like the Merlin when I'm kneeling. Kayakmedic mentioned the Rockstar which would probably allow me to take the needed stretch break from kneeling but would a kevlar Rockstar still give me that wonderful Merlin 2 experience? Thanks in advance for your kind advice and interest!
 
 
  Another way to counter twitchy
  Posted by: kayamedic on Oct-03-12 8:20 AM (EST)
is to carry something in the boat balanced fore and aft. I am always amazed at how the same boat feels so different empty and with tripping gear in it.

Its hard to find a Rockstar..so much of what makes our experience enjoyable comes not from data matching body specs but from our head. Now doubt your boat feels twitchy..it is more because you have raised your center of gravity.

But add to that your head reminding you of past twitchy feelings. Now you are expecting unstable and its more magnified perhaps because you were expecting it.

There is a limit. add some weight low down and boat feels more stable.. Add too much and it feels like a log and in the case of some boats gets more unstable. Particularly those whose hull is wide low down. (that would NOT be the Merlin II)
 
 
  The Rendezvous wouldn't track as well
  Posted by: ezwater on Oct-03-12 12:07 AM (EST)
because of its increased rocker, but if you kneel close to the center of the boat and use a short stroke, firm catch, it should track well enough without your needing to J stroke except occasionally. I've paddled the boat, the Royalex version which tracks worse than yours, and I didn't notice a need to J. In fact, my complaint about the boat (as a paddler of true whitewater canoes) was that it tracked *too* well.
 
 
  Wenonah Wilderness
  Posted by: Boo on Oct-03-12 12:32 AM (EST)
Have you looked at the Wilderness. From what you describe it may be a contender. ..if not the all out winner.
 
 
  My experience
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-03-12 7:04 AM (EST)
I have owned a Merlin II and currently own an Osprey. The Osprey definatly has more capicity and is more stable. It feels secure paddling sitting and it's seat is comfortable both sitting and kneeling. I don't have a dog,but have paddled ot a lot with my active grandaughter in front of me with no problem. It feels only slightly slower than the Merlin and turnes better,I more capible in moving water,but tracks a little less strongly. I have a preference for boats that are only as large as necessary to maximize paddling ease,low weight,and wind resistance.
Hope this is of some help.
Turtle
 
 
  Well said
  Posted by: pblanc on Oct-03-12 8:17 AM (EST)
My experience with the Osprey is exactly the same as Turtle's. The Osprey feels significantly more stable than the Merlin II but is perhaps a tad slower when going all out. It is still very pleasant and efficient at typical cruising speed, however, and is a bit more nimble than the Merlin II. It paddles well both sitting and kneeling.

My feeling is that if you can cope with the Merlin II you could certainly do well in an Osprey and gain just a little carrying capacity to boot. I have never paddled a Shearwater. If it paddles like a little bigger Osprey it might be a good boat for you, assuming you really want something bigger.
 
 
  Wow! Thanks for responses re Merlin 2
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-03-12 9:18 AM (EST)
Thanks everyone for the responses! This is my first time to chat on paddling.net and I am amazed at the 3Q's of your responses: Quick, Quality, and Quantity! Thanks! I paddled a Royalex Wilderness and it didn't catch my fancy but not to say that a composite Wilderness wouldn't. Problem is I've lived most of my life in the Dallas area where you can test countless classy high price composites, but only if they are bicycles! I can only read about Swift Ospreys and Shearwaters, etc, etc. and drool. Especially helpful are comments from you guys that have owned boats I have owned alongside boats I haven't. My kevflex Rendezvous really does a combination of things quite well, but is just a tad heavy at 49lbs, hence the ongoing search by this life long addict. Question: I know what the term "sit and switch" means aka "hit and switch" and used to own a Beaver marathon tandem years ago. But what is the name of the one sided style? I seem to remember North American Touring Technique or Canadian or Freestyle used somewhat interchangeably and probably inaccurately by guys like me! Again, Thanks!
 
 
  paddling styles
  Posted by: pblanc on Oct-03-12 10:48 AM (EST)
North American touring technique is basically a hit and switch style. I hear the term most often applied to tandem teams in which the stern partner (who has a better line of sight regarding the heading of the boat) usually calls the switches, and both partners switch sides simultaneously, thus avoiding any correction strokes.

Traditional paddling style is probably what you do, pretty much sticking on one side at a time, using some type of correction stroke (C stroke, Canadian stroke, pitch stroke, or J stroke) to counteract the tendency of the power stroke to turn the canoe toward the off side.

Canadian style usually refers to a paddling style in which the paddler sits amidships in the boat (often a rather wide tandem) with both knees in one chine of the boat and the boat heeled (often dramatically) toward the paddling side. Heeling the boat this way clears the stems of a long boat from the water allowing a tandem to be turned more easily by a solo paddler, and making it easy to reach over the gunwale to plant the paddle with a vertical shaft angle.

Whitewater C boaters often use a different style of paddling which also lessens the need for correction strokes by using forward and cross forward strokes in combination to maintain desired heading and utilizing the tendency of the hull to carve a circle toward the paddling side to counteract the tendency of the boat to turn away from the side a power stroke is taken on.
 
 
  Traditional it is!
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-03-12 10:59 AM (EST)
Thanks pblanc for the clarification. With your memory jog I now remember Harry Robert's(?) usage of the term "North American Touring Technique" for sit and switch, and I had misused it in my previous post having not even thought about the term for many years. So,I paddle "traditional style" or as my biking friends would call me on my steel road bike, "Retro."
 
 
  Shearwater
  Posted by: rblturtle on Oct-03-12 11:18 AM (EST)
I have paddled a Shearwater,here are my observations;
-It's REAL big
-contrary to my expecations,it didn't paddle like a big osprey at all,more like many other solos,dull?,sluggish? it turned OK(remember I prefer small boats)I have seen it haul huge loads well with a strong paddler.
- I'm a weak paddler and I found it hard to make a decient speed.
-If I had to haul a lot I would prefer to paddle my Novacraft Pal solo.
Turtle
 
 
  Shearwater & Osprey
  Posted by: ness on Oct-07-12 10:12 AM (EST)
My husband and I own both boats. My husband paddles the Shearwater sitting, but I paddle it kneeling. Yes, it is large, but we are not small people, and we both like the boat. It's stable, easy to turn, easy to paddle seated, great for Adirondacks camping, pleasant to paddle, can put a dog in it, and it's lightweight to pick up. My boat is the Osprey, which I mainly paddle kneeling. The Osprey is extremely responsive. I don't think of it as a smaller Shearwater, and I usually paddle it kneeling, rather than seated.

We specifically bought our Shearwater for canoe camping, not for day tripping, and as a stable platform for my husband to sit and paddle. It serves its purpose well for us. Ask yourself where you are going to use the boat you want to buy next, and what you are going to use it for. That helped us narrow down the choices.
 
 
  As to your position in the boat
  Posted by: stevet on Oct-03-12 2:47 PM (EST)
you may try pulling just one leg out from the kneeling position and placing it forward to rest it. With the other knee still incontact with the hull it is a very stable position. When that leg/foot feels OK, switch. I think Canadians call it a "relief" position.

It's effective and can be done without going to shore, though I usually need to grab the rails while changing position.

A Hemlock Eaglet would work for you if you are not looking for top notch speed. Looks like a nice one for sale in the classifieds.
 
 
  Solo Trippers
  Posted by: CEWilson on Oct-05-12 1:22 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Oct-10-12 9:36 AM EST --

DY has designed over ten variations on his solo tripper concept. The latest and largest is the Swift Keewaydin 15. Compared to the older Merlin II it is wider, has less pronounced shoulders and the differential bow rocker is increased and more localized.

Both it and it's stablemate the Winter's designed Osprey are a little large for me. The oppressive weight of the current presidential campaign has reduced my once 5'10" frame to 5'8.5". I need to move my offside knee to cross heel Osprey. Strange, but these are the best two of the larger solos; Shearwater is HUGE. It is not referred to as the USS Enterprise by Swift insiders for no cause. If one screwed four sheets of 3/4 in ply to the rails a light plane might be landed.

That said, you're much taller and probably need a wider boat. There aren't many to choose from, Bell's RockStar, Colden's WildFire, Hemlock's Eaglet, Merrimac's Baboosic, Sawyers, Autumn Mist, Swift's Kee 15, Osprey and Shearwater and Wenonah's Wilderness pretty much complete the array of hulls 30"+ wide by 14-15 feet long.

The WildFire and Baboosic have quite a bit of symmetrical rocker, and Baboosic has little center tumblehome. Autumn Mist and Wilderness have minimal rocker and Eaglet's is symmetrical, which brings you down to the RockStar, which hasn't been made in a few years and the two 15 foot Swifts.

Huntsville ONT is a long walk from Texas and fwe RockStars were made. Look at Swift's demo footage, try to access an event Raystown, a FreeStyle Symposium, PaddleFest in Old Forge NY, etc, where Swift will have hulls. RockStar is still irregularly available used.

Bon Chance!

 
 
  I'm curious about Wilderness's Rocker
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Oct-05-12 2:57 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Oct-05-12 3:30 PM EST --

The catalog says the Wilderness has 1.25 inches of rocker. However, I know that the Wenonah Vagabond in composite form has that same amount of rocker and it is easy to see the rocker just by looking down the length of the hull, yet the Royalex version has no rocker at all. Once carrying even a very light load in water, the Royalex version has reverse rocker (the Royalex model is also half a foot shorter). Is this your observation about "no rocker" in the Wilderness? Considering how big a difference there is in performance and handling between composite and Royalex versions of the Vagabond, I'm guessing that the same may be true of the Wilderness. Perhaps the composite version of the Wilderness has, undeservedly, the same reputation as its (presumably) crappy-handling Royalex cousin.

 
 
  Wildy Rocker
  Posted by: CEWilson on Oct-07-12 10:42 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Oct-07-12 11:23 AM EST --

I've run a tape on an upside down stored Kev Wildy at Adk Lakes and Trails. Will send image to any interested party via private email, but this site does not seem to support images?

Rocker is a drafting convention unique to each designer so comparing numbers is useless. That said, composite Wildy's are without useful rocker. Our prime onside turning maneuver, the Duffek, is highly compromised because that long, deep, bow won't draw to the paddle.

 
 
  A related observation
  Posted by: guideboatguy on Oct-09-12 10:12 PM (EST)
I noticed something similar about the Royalex Vagabond I used to own. It wasn't too maneuverable. Though I can't heel a canoe to the rail in any sort of confident manner, I've found that a "reasonable" amount of heeling will free the stems of a lot of canoes, but that wasn't true of the Vagabond. Wenonah canoes have straight-line taper between the ends and middle, which is very unlike most other brands which have a rounded taper. Thus, the effective zone of greatest width in the Vagabond is concentrated within a very small area, rather than spread out over a substantial portion of the boat's length. The reason the stems won't come free is because with the widest part of the boat concentrated within such a small area, leaning simply causes the widest part of the boat to bury itself deeply in the water. A boat with a more gradual transition from the wide center section to the narrower ends (due to curved taper rather than straight-line taper) does not sink as deeply as a Vagabond when leaned because the same displacement occurs with MUCH less draft. The overall result is that the main thing the Vagabond does well is go straight, and since the Wilderness appears to be an over-sized Vagabond, a heavy person in a Wilderness would likely find the same unresponsiveness to leaning that a small person finds with the Vagabond.
 
 
  shearwater convert
  Posted by: nycmhandy on Oct-08-12 10:17 PM (EST)
In August I paddled a Swift Shearwater for four days, and I really liked it with a load of maybe 40 pounds (plus my 225). I paddled one years ago and didn't like it much -- I agreed with rblturtle's opinion that it was sluggish. This year's rental, though, was of an infused hull (I can't remember the name of the layup, but it was shimmery silvery gray). Due to an administrative error earlier in the day we arrived, AO had rented out the two solos we had reserved, so they had to borrow two all-but-new infused demos from the Swift factory next door. Lucky us! I don't know if it was weight or stiffness or small differences in shape, but the hull was fun to paddle. So there's one option for you: buy infused.

A second option is to paddle the boat you have, but lock yourself into the boat a little more, for stability. I paddle a Placid Boatworks RapidFire as a kneeling solo, and I do as stevet suggested: a fair amount of the time I have one leg extended forward and one tucked under the seat. However, the Rapid has sea-kayak-style foot braces mounted along the side, so I can lock into a solid support on the side I'm extended on. The knee on the other side is also solid. It's almost as stable as kneeling on both knees. I don't know if you could mount that kind of footbrace in the sides of the Merlin II or if you would need a cross-hull footbar, like racers use.

Finally, I have paddled the Wenonah Prism for a few days, and I agree that it is large enough for you. Wenonah would probably outfit it as a kneeling boat for a modest customization charge. It is among my least favorite solos -- another one that felt sluggish when I rented one. Maybe one of these days I will score an infused hull for a rental....

Mark
 
 
  A Deal is in the works!
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-08-12 11:24 PM (EST)
To all who have given me such a great variety of responses to my question regarding solo canoes similar to "a larger Bell Merlin 2", be of good cheer! A deal is in the works! I hope to have a new solo within a couple of weeks or so and then paddle it and then post the results in a week or two. So be sure to check back here near the end of October when I will reveal my impressions of the chosen boat ... which is a (drum roll) ...

wavetrain ;)
 
 
  Bell Merlin 2
  Posted by: wavetrain on Oct-17-12 10:30 PM (EST)
I regret to report to all that the deal I had in the works did not work out. But the silver lining is that my continuing enjoyment in searching for that next great boat can continue. What a great sport!
 

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