Hole in stern of WS kayak - please help!

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Hole in stern of WS kayak - please help!
Posted by: openstage on Sep-29-12 1:43 PM (EST) Category: Kayaks

So here's the story. My Wilderness Systems Tsunami 160 suffered a drop and the rudder bracket popped out leaving a 1 x 2" rectangular hole. The plastic where the hole is, is about 1/2 inch thick I've posted pictures of the hole at this webpage http://tinyurl.com/98d2ej4

I've been told by a few people to "forget about ever attaching the rudder again." While others say you still can do it if your patch is good and you reinforce it with a steel plate.

So here's the question: what is the best way to patch the hole? Is the best fix a plastic weld with weld rods and a piece of scrap poly. Or can I use a product like G/Flex with some poly or fiberglass? Many dealers have offered repair products, but I've had no luck finding a small piece of actual Wilderness Systems plastic. I worry about getting a good bond.

So I appreciate any advice/photos/experience/videos people can share. I can live without the rudder, but I can't toss this otherwise perfect kayak in the trash. Thanks!

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Table of Contents

Hole in stern of WS kayak - please help! - openstage - Sep-29-12 1:43 PM
- i feel like - radiomix - Sep-29-12 3:43 PM
  - Aluminum sandwich - openstage - Sep-29-12 4:41 PM
- I would try - Peter-CA - Sep-29-12 4:21 PM
  - 2 metal pieces - openstage - Sep-29-12 4:44 PM
    - bolts - Peter-CA - Sep-29-12 8:56 PM
- Chad Hoover - PeaceLoveSandyFeet - Sep-29-12 6:16 PM
- No prob. - LeeG - Sep-29-12 8:30 PM
  - agree - Andy_Szymczak - Sep-29-12 9:23 PM
    - SMALL batches. I tried it with a large - string - Sep-29-12 10:58 PM
      - ice it down - edzep - Sep-29-12 11:01 PM
        
        Put in plastic bag - LeeG - Sep-30-12 5:33 AM
- plumber's epoxy? - sapien - Sep-30-12 7:35 AM
  - Tight space - openstage - Sep-30-12 8:48 AM
- I would do an outside repair, with - g2d - Sep-30-12 4:04 PM

Messages in this Topic

  i feel like
  Posted by: radiomix on Sep-29-12 3:43 PM (EST)

You could use a piece of aluminum on the inside and a piece of aluminum on the outside. Use a bunch of epoxy to fill the void and reattach the rudder with fastners long enough to go all the way through the new layers of metal.

Ryan L.

  Aluminum sandwich
  Posted by: openstage on Sep-29-12 4:41 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 4:42 PM EST --

I thought of that but wondered how water tight that seal would be?

  I would try
  Posted by: Peter-CA on Sep-29-12 4:21 PM (EST)

I would try. A larger plate in the back (inside), and maybe on the outside, so that the plate overlaps with undamaged plastic could be good. Non-rusting material, like aluminum.

One challenge will be getti8ng at the inside. I repaired a Looksha Sport rudder that I snapped the bolts off on. Was a total pain to work on the bolts inside the rear hatch. Used every socket extension I had and even then was stretching to reach it.

  2 metal pieces
  Posted by: openstage on Sep-29-12 4:44 PM (EST)

So how would you connect the metal pieces together and to the boat. Bolts from the inside to out with nuts?

Thanks

  bolts
  Posted by: Peter-CA on Sep-29-12 8:56 PM (EST)

Yes, bolts. Possibly with the same bolt holes that you have for the rudder.

And you will have to fill the hole with something, as that would be your primary waterproof seal for the hole.

  Chad Hoover
  Posted by: PeaceLoveSandyFeet on Sep-29-12 6:16 PM (EST)

Here's a video showing how to repair the plastic. Chad is a WS legend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Cds-ikH24

Not sure whether it would be strong enough for the rudder, though.

  No prob.
  Posted by: LeeG on Sep-29-12 8:30 PM (EST)

Put tape over hole. Put kayak up on end. Mix up 6oz slow cure epoxy with chopped glass. Maybe a couple tbs chopped glass. Plop mess down the hatch into the stern. When cured drill new rudder holes.

  agree
  Posted by: Andy_Szymczak on Sep-29-12 9:23 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 9:55 PM EST --

Really easy to do, mix up small batches! I attached my boat to a ladder and then just lifted it.

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2674966560041263145dXbsNi

  SMALL batches. I tried it with a large
  Posted by: string on Sep-29-12 10:58 PM (EST)

batch(a small cup) and thought I was going to cook the boat. Smokin!

  ice it down
  Posted by: edzep on Sep-29-12 11:01 PM (EST)

-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 11:03 PM EST --

Something like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwfloyd/3480392728/in/set-72157611497267680

edit: OK, this can only work if you're sure you have a waterproof hull to pour into... which OP will not, with the hole taped over.

  Put in plastic bag
  Posted by: LeeG on Sep-30-12 5:33 AM (EST)

Then put in bucket w ice.. yr right, too large a batch will boil. It might be necessary to screw a plate of aluminum or ss over the hole anchored to the plug with the rudder mounted through the plate to the plug.

  plumber's epoxy?
  Posted by: sapien on Sep-30-12 7:35 AM (EST)

I would try the metal backing plate with bolts idea, with a layer of plumber's epoxy in between to seal the hole. but first heat up the area around the hole to push the edges down flat.

  Tight space
  Posted by: openstage on Sep-30-12 8:48 AM (EST)

Thanks to all for the ideas / feedback. Keep in mind that the reach from the back hatch opening to the repair is nearly 3 ft and it tapers down to an area of about 3 inches x 3 inches. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to do or reach from the inside.

Do people seem to favor the idea of plugging the hole with fiberglass over actual poly?

I talked to one guy yesterday who agrees with the tip on end mode but with a diff twist. He said place a sheet of aluminum inside with a nail through it ( head of the nail behind the alum, point extending out of the boat). Use the poly patch material / welding rod to fill the hole in layers. When nearly done push the nail back inside and plug the last bit. The crazy thing about this mode is that I'd need to do this from the roof or some other high place and have the stern 16ft in the air.

  I would do an outside repair, with
  Posted by: g2d on Sep-30-12 4:04 PM (EST)

a plate strong enough to carry the rudder. I would attach the plate over the hole with both thickened G-flex and with pop rivets. The boat and plate surfaces should be flamed with a propane torch so the G-flex adheres well. The pop rivets are mainly to keep the plate down on the hull and the G-flex while the latter hardens.

As for the material for the plate, poly, metal, ABS, or composite (maybe 6 layers of alternating Kevlar and glass) could work. It just needs to be stiff.

I'd probably just ditch the rudder, but they don't contribute much to my kayaking experience.....

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	i feel like Posted by: radiomix on Sep-29-12 3:43 PM (EST)
	You could use a piece of aluminum on the inside and a piece of aluminum on the outside. Use a bunch of epoxy to fill the void and reattach the rudder with fastners long enough to go all the way through the new layers of metal. Ryan L.

	Aluminum sandwich Posted by: openstage on Sep-29-12 4:41 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 4:42 PM EST -- I thought of that but wondered how water tight that seal would be?

	I would try Posted by: Peter-CA on Sep-29-12 4:21 PM (EST)
	I would try. A larger plate in the back (inside), and maybe on the outside, so that the plate overlaps with undamaged plastic could be good. Non-rusting material, like aluminum. One challenge will be getti8ng at the inside. I repaired a Looksha Sport rudder that I snapped the bolts off on. Was a total pain to work on the bolts inside the rear hatch. Used every socket extension I had and even then was stretching to reach it.

	2 metal pieces Posted by: openstage on Sep-29-12 4:44 PM (EST)
	So how would you connect the metal pieces together and to the boat. Bolts from the inside to out with nuts? Thanks

	bolts Posted by: Peter-CA on Sep-29-12 8:56 PM (EST)
	Yes, bolts. Possibly with the same bolt holes that you have for the rudder. And you will have to fill the hole with something, as that would be your primary waterproof seal for the hole.

	Chad Hoover Posted by: PeaceLoveSandyFeet on Sep-29-12 6:16 PM (EST)
	Here's a video showing how to repair the plastic. Chad is a WS legend. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Cds-ikH24 Not sure whether it would be strong enough for the rudder, though.

	No prob. Posted by: LeeG on Sep-29-12 8:30 PM (EST)
	Put tape over hole. Put kayak up on end. Mix up 6oz slow cure epoxy with chopped glass. Maybe a couple tbs chopped glass. Plop mess down the hatch into the stern. When cured drill new rudder holes.

	agree Posted by: Andy_Szymczak on Sep-29-12 9:23 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 9:55 PM EST -- Really easy to do, mix up small batches! I attached my boat to a ladder and then just lifted it. http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2674966560041263145dXbsNi

	SMALL batches. I tried it with a large Posted by: string on Sep-29-12 10:58 PM (EST)
	batch(a small cup) and thought I was going to cook the boat. Smokin!

	ice it down Posted by: edzep on Sep-29-12 11:01 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Sep-29-12 11:03 PM EST -- Something like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wwfloyd/3480392728/in/set-72157611497267680 edit: OK, this can only work if you're sure you have a waterproof hull to pour into... which OP will not, with the hole taped over.

	Put in plastic bag Posted by: LeeG on Sep-30-12 5:33 AM (EST)
	Then put in bucket w ice.. yr right, too large a batch will boil. It might be necessary to screw a plate of aluminum or ss over the hole anchored to the plug with the rudder mounted through the plate to the plug.

	plumber's epoxy? Posted by: sapien on Sep-30-12 7:35 AM (EST)
	I would try the metal backing plate with bolts idea, with a layer of plumber's epoxy in between to seal the hole. but first heat up the area around the hole to push the edges down flat.

	Tight space Posted by: openstage on Sep-30-12 8:48 AM (EST)
	Thanks to all for the ideas / feedback. Keep in mind that the reach from the back hatch opening to the repair is nearly 3 ft and it tapers down to an area of about 3 inches x 3 inches. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to do or reach from the inside. Do people seem to favor the idea of plugging the hole with fiberglass over actual poly? I talked to one guy yesterday who agrees with the tip on end mode but with a diff twist. He said place a sheet of aluminum inside with a nail through it ( head of the nail behind the alum, point extending out of the boat). Use the poly patch material / welding rod to fill the hole in layers. When nearly done push the nail back inside and plug the last bit. The crazy thing about this mode is that I'd need to do this from the roof or some other high place and have the stern 16ft in the air.

	I would do an outside repair, with Posted by: g2d on Sep-30-12 4:04 PM (EST)
	a plate strong enough to carry the rudder. I would attach the plate over the hole with both thickened G-flex and with pop rivets. The boat and plate surfaces should be flamed with a propane torch so the G-flex adheres well. The pop rivets are mainly to keep the plate down on the hull and the G-flex while the latter hardens. As for the material for the plate, poly, metal, ABS, or composite (maybe 6 layers of alternating Kevlar and glass) could work. It just needs to be stiff. I'd probably just ditch the rudder, but they don't contribute much to my kayaking experience.....