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  Tiderace xcite S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-11-12 8:31 PM (EST)
   Category: Kayaks 

Anyone have seat time in a Tiderace xcite S?
Was wondering what kind of glide or speed the boat
has if doing flat water paddles. Is it comparable
to a avocet or similar 16' boat? Was thinking of a
xcite s for a main boat that could pull double duty
as a play boat and short touring boat.

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Messages in this Topic

 

  nice boat
  Posted by: suiram on Aug-12-12 10:50 AM (EST)
It should be compared to VCP Avocet LV and SKUK Pilgrim.

At my level of fitness it was really quick to accelerate, would pop out with each stroke. Just like Avocet LV and Pilgrim

The design philosophy is a bit different from Valley and SKUK, depends what you like in a boat. I prefer loose hulls - as in you have to work to make them go straight, as opposed to working a boat turn. TRs are typically better trackers.

Other than that - boat fit is personal. I felt good in it at 5.9x150lb. But I felt good at others as well.

The thing to really appreciate with TideRace boats is quality of construction. If you pay more for the HardCore layup, you definitely get what you pay for.
 
 
  Yup.
  Posted by: magooch on Aug-12-12 10:59 AM (EST)
I've paddled just about all of the Tiderace boats. I like the looks of their boats a lot and they do seem well built, but my initial impressions were not up to my expectations. I didn't care much for the seat and the top speed seemed to be limited by premature stern squat. Their handling aspects seemed to be their strong suit. No doubt they would be good in textured conditions.
 
 
  Tiderace xcite S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-12-12 12:35 PM (EST)
So the TR xcite S is comparable to other 16' for
speed. I just sold a NDK greenlander and wanted something a bit looser and more playful. I've owned
a avocet in the past but wanted to try something
differnent and was thinking tiderace, at 5'9" 155lbs
the xcite s was the one I was eye balling. The main
reason I sold the avocet was on flatter water it felt
kinda slow. Another boat that might be a good all
rounder was the Cetus LV, I have a demo setup to
paddle Cetus LV in a week from now and see how that
goes. Being in southern Ontario it's hard to find
tiderace boats to demo, would have to drive 4-5 hrs
to demo one.
 
 
  .
  Posted by: suiram on Aug-12-12 7:11 PM (EST)
Try to get some seat time in SKUK Pilgrim Expedition
 
 
  seat position
  Posted by: nickjc on Aug-13-12 12:24 PM (EST)
Moving the seat forward .5-1 inch will loosen the hull tracking.
They are not a fast boat compared to some of the other models like the xplore-s but not a dog either. I've done 25 mile day paddles with a partner who was in one.
 
 
  Objective test
  Posted by: otterslide on Aug-13-12 3:21 PM (EST)
When my wife was in the market for a new boat, one issue was efficiency.
We compared the Tiderace Xcite S, the Avocet LV, and the Pilgrim Expedition.
I say "we", because in addition to personal response to fit, comfort, and handling (subjective), there was also extensive playing around with heart rate monitor and a GPS. I will add that, as a reformed kayak racer, I have many years experience using the test protocol.
No surprise, the difference up to 3.5kn was...no difference. But at 4kn, the Xcite S consistently had superior efficiency (less effort).

Back to the subjective, my opinion is different than others regarding the tracking. I find all Tiderace kayaks noticeably "looser" than comparable model from NDK. They do exhibit more weatherhelm behavior as well.
Compared to an Avocet, I can say that the Xcite (not the S) feels far more efficient at higher speeds, but interestingly enough will accelerate better. The response to stern rudder strokes seems similar.
 
 
  Tiderace xcite S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-13-12 7:37 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-13-12 11:33 PM EST --

So the xcite S feels more efficient when pushed
compared to avocet lv or pilgram ex. I do alot
of solo paddling and was wondering if the xite s
would be efficient enough covering ground when I needed to.
I always ended up selling my smaller 16'boats because
they felt slow or hit a wall speed wise compared
to a longer boat like an aquanaut or greenlander I owned and sold(both a little big)
and was hoping the tiderace xcite s might fall in
between them for any flat water day paddles or touring. I might be better off with a cetus LV because
of extra hull lenght but still have some playfulness.
What raised interested in tiderace was that the hulls
water lines were maximized for speed and the xcite s
rolls really, really good. I have a tahe greenland OC
for rolling and day paddles as well and wanted a really all good around boat that you could do anything with but has a reasonable cruise speed for covering
distance.

 
 
  Have you considered
  Posted by: magooch on Aug-14-12 11:54 AM (EST)
A 17'-2" NC. In the Lt. version, they are very light, fast and stable. The handling might not be as quick as a comparable Tiderace, but the NC will spoil you when you get it in the big stuff, or for that matter on flat water if you want to cover some miles. And they're American made.
 
 
  NC? what is a NC kayak?
  Posted by: thirstyturtle on Aug-14-12 3:27 PM (EST)
Just curious.
 
 
  re:nc
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-14-12 8:29 PM (EST)
Novus Composites, IIRC. I think they're a 'direct-order' company, i.e. no dealers, and probably no 'try before you buy'.

From what I remember, they tend to make very straight-tracking boats that don't turn very well.
 
 
  You can try an NC with us . . .
  Posted by: water_walker on Aug-18-12 12:27 PM (EST)
We are an NC Kayaks affiliate located in midcoast Maine and offer the opportunity to test paddle their boats.

Yes, the NC 17 is fast, light, and a straight tracker. The NC 15 has a looser, more playful feel. Both feel very secure in chop and waves. www.touringkayaks.com
 
 
  cetus LV
  Posted by: jsmarch on Aug-16-12 9:39 AM (EST)
I you're going to look at the Cetus, try the Xplore-S: very fast, easy to maneuver, great fit, and the center hatch design is much better than on the Cetus. I have an Xplore M, and love it.
 
 
  Xplore S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-16-12 2:09 PM (EST)
Had alot of people recommond a xplore s, so I went
and bought one! Thx
 
 
  congrats!
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-16-12 3:30 PM (EST)
that's a fine pick given your priorities.

Late to this thread (good discussion, too) but have paddled all three of the boats which were in play earlier (Avocet LV, Tiderace XciteS and Pilgrim).

They're much more alike to each other than different. All pleasant to paddle, mobile and fun, great for rolling and other skills... but none of them would have given you the speed over distance you were after, esp as a former owner of the NDK Greenlander and Greenlander Prol

That would be asking a lot of any highly rockered British style seakayak in the 16 foot range. It's just not where they excel.

I agree w. suiram that the Pilgrim Expedition, and the Tiderace ExploreS would be significantly more interesting to you, and you picked the latter. Many happy miles in your new boat...



 
 
  re: Xplore S
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-16-12 4:13 PM (EST)
So Jay, what do you think of the Xplore S so far?

 
 
  Xplore S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-16-12 4:50 PM (EST)
Still has to be picked up! I did the one thing you
shouldn't and bought without a demo.
 
 
  There is no way...........
  Posted by: blackboat on Aug-16-12 9:46 PM (EST)
......you're not gonna love this boat.
 
 
  tell us how it is once you paddle it
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-17-12 12:19 AM (EST)
 
 
  Feedback
  Posted by: jay on Aug-17-12 9:02 AM (EST)
I'll post after a couple of paddles with new boat.
 
 
  One question
  Posted by: magooch on Aug-17-12 11:38 AM (EST)
Congratulations on your new boat, Jay. Maybe you can satisfy a question I have about the Xplore. When I demo paddled it, I noticed that unlike the other Tiderace boats I paddled, the Xplore seemed to have a much more vague secondary. I didn't have the time nor the desire to end up swimming, so I'm curious to know what you think.
 
 
  I'll try to answer, but ymmv...
  Posted by: tvcrider on Aug-18-12 11:05 AM (EST)
I have paddled the Tiderace Xcite, Xcite S, and Xplore S.

Yes, I did feel the the Xplore S had rather vague secondary stability when compared to the other two Tiderace boats and my own Cetus LV. If I had to chose a Tiderace model it would be the Xcite, but honestly I'm about 25 pounds to light for it.
 
 
  Xplore M
  Posted by: jsmarch on Aug-19-12 8:45 AM (EST)
Had a review ready to post, then Safari hung and nada--haven't gone back. I love the Xplore. Primary and secondary are both strong--not sure where this idea of ill defined secondary comes from? Secondary gets much better when loaded as would be expected. The kayak is very fast yet turns easily upwind or down when edged. It has very reassuring manners in lumpy wanter, surfs downwind easily, and is easy to control on a wave face at least in small surf. I've owned a lot of kayaks, but have paddled mostly OC Greenland kayaks for years. I bought the Xplore because I wanted a camping/expedition kayak. Was worried that I wouldn't like it, but turned out the opposite. Turner Wilson and Cheri Perry paddle the Xcite--has replaced the BBK Aral as the go to camping/surfing kayak from what I can see. I picked the Xplore over the Xcite for speed and volume. From what I can tell the two main East Coast dealers--NY Kayak Company and Savannah Canoe and Kayak sell their stock right away. Still, there's always the allure of the new kid on the block--we'll see what sort of staying power TR has over the long term. Me, I'm a happy paddler.
 
 
  re: Xplore M
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Sep-25-12 12:14 PM (EST)
Awesome mini-review. =]

If I may ask, what is your height and weight? I've been wondering if I should be trying out the Xplore M, or the L.

 
 
  no demo lol
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-18-12 12:52 PM (EST)
huge balls, man, to drop that kind of coin on a boat you haven't tried. Props.

srsly if you paddled a Greenlander which has its own beloved squirrelly moves, no worries re secondary in an ExploreS.

which layup did you get?
 
 
  Xplore S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-18-12 4:56 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-18-12 5:22 PM EST --

Classic layup with keel strip and compass for $2500.
If for some reason I really didn't like it a resale
shouldn't be that big of a deal. But to really get
to know a boat you need a season of paddling it.

 
 
  very fair price
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-18-12 7:10 PM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-18-12 9:18 PM EST --

esp if it's a brand new boat.

Dealers are selling demo Tideraces in the Xcite and Xplore for $2300-$2800. Some w. compass or keel strip. In classic layup.

You did well.

The market is funny for Tiderace. The rave reviews are all out there, like when the Cetus was intro'd. As w. Cetus a number of instructors and coaches have picked up a Tiderace which for some ppl adds to the cachet.

Yet there are dealers in the Midwest and Fla who have had Tiderace demos for sale since May and haven't moved them even after dropping the price.

A midwest paddle shop is dropping the line and they quickly clearanced out all but one Tiderace boat in the heavy duty Hardcore layup.

The name isn't as well known as the other Brit makes and Tiderace dealers few and far between at the moment. In time this can change.

You may like the boat so well that it's moot anyway.

Agree it takes a season to really start to know a boat. C'mon back here sooner w. first impressions.



 
 
  first impressions
  Posted by: jay on Aug-18-12 8:07 PM (EST)
Will do.
 
 
  I'd bet...
  Posted by: ByronWalter on Aug-20-12 9:37 AM (EST)
...that you are going to really like that TR. Just a couple of days ago I was talking with a guy that's a high-level kayaker and he was going on and on about the quality of construction of the TR boats.

He also commented on how he liked the Xplore as a great all around kayak.

Best to ya...
 
 
  re: tiderace
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-18-12 10:29 PM (EST)
Wow, it's kinda sad that TR is having a hard time gaining traction in some places.

Wonder if it'd help them at all to have some rotomold boats out there? If price is the obstacle...

 
 
  Tiderace gaining traction - or not
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-20-12 3:12 PM (EST)
the real issue imo is that many of the places where Tiderace could be carried are already carrying VCP, NDK, and P&H. While we may enjoy parsing and celebrating their differences, overall there is simply a lot of overlap in these designs.

All four of these companies are in the higher price point for a new, non-discounted British seakayak (before goodies like compass, keel strip, special layups are added).

The usual dealer is a small paddleshop or outfitter that only has so much floor space and only so many dollars to be sunk into standing inventory. For them to carry Tiderace - a relative newcomer - usually means dropping one of the other more established British lines.

Not saying it couldn't and isn't being done but it is not a business decision to be made lightly. And the miniscule number of Tiderace dealerships keeps the selling prices high as the supply is low.
 
 
  Good point
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-20-12 9:13 PM (EST)
I think that's part of it, yes.

For instance, probably the two best dealers in my area already carry a lot of good Brit boats– one carries NDK and Valley, the other has Valley and P&H. The latter 'can get you a Tiderace' to try out, but he doesn't seem to have 'em in the store usually.

However, there are at least four other shops of note in the area who are also pretty good, and none of them carry any of the top British brands. In fact, all or most of these seem to carry Wildy, Dagger, Perception, and Necky (one carries Eddyline).

There's also a few REIs (of course), and they too are into Wildy and Dagger, with some Delta.

Given that you can't seem to turn around without tripping over a Wildy Tsunami or Tempest or a Dagger boat in these parts, I'm going to say that the 'big boys' of the kayak world (like Confluence) are having an impact on this as well.

Also, as all of these boats are relatively cheap (even the Tempest comes in rotomold) and that TR, unlike Valley, P&H, and NDK does not have a cheap RM boat, maybe that's playing it to it as well.


 
 
  re: Tideraces in RM
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Sep-23-12 7:22 AM (EST)
"Wow, it's kinda sad that TR is having a hard time gaining traction in some places.

Wonder if it'd help them at all to have some rotomold boats out there? If price is the obstacle..."


Interestingly, and to add to my original point, Tiderace now DOES have a rotomold boat on the way. =]

It's called the Vortex, and it's basically their Xtra playboat in plastic. Hope it sells well for them.

 
 
  Where
  Posted by: Dreamweve on Aug-20-12 5:36 AM (EST)
Is a Tiderace dealer in Florida?
 
 
  re: where
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-20-12 5:56 AM (EST)
-- Last Updated: Aug-22-12 7:15 PM EST --

Oops... they actually do have dealers in Florida now (below). NM

 
 
  Tiderace in Fla
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-20-12 3:03 PM (EST)
I know someone in Fla who is a dealer with a small number of new and used Tideraces. PM me if interested and I will get him in touch w. you.
 
 
  TR Xcite is a splendid yak
  Posted by: eskmrol on Aug-20-12 4:03 PM (EST)
for dealers: http://www.tideraceseakayaks.com/index.php/dealers/usa.html

Xcite Review: http://www.tideraceseakayaks.com/images/stories/pdf/TideraceXciteReview.pdf
 
 
  Can you tell us who it is?
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-20-12 7:34 PM (EST)
That would help everyone in Florida who's interested in TR, not just this guy.
 
 
  Tiderace contact
  Posted by: RavenWing on Aug-20-12 11:47 PM (EST)
he's a friend of a friend who is getting a Tiderace Excite sooner or later from him. Because I don't know if he is an "authorized dealer" I'm not gonna put his name and personal contact info out on any message board.

pm me with your contact info, and I'll pass it along.
 
 
  dealer
  Posted by: landsharc on Aug-21-12 7:44 AM (EST)
he is an authorized dealer. kissimee river kayak.
sailstcloud@gmail.com
 
 
  dealer
  Posted by: landsharc on Aug-21-12 7:46 AM (EST)
I believe sweetwater kayaks is also a dealer now or so ive heard
 
 
  Yep on Sweetwater
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-21-12 12:26 PM (EST)
On their own site, they list several TR boats for sale.

They're not listed on Tiderace's site as a dealer yet, but many kayak manufacturers are slow to update their sites.

Valley's a good example- they update once every couple of years, whether it needs it or not. =D

 
 
  dealer
  Posted by: landsharc on Aug-20-12 4:11 PM (EST)
I know a dealer also. could be the same guy the other person is talking about. pm me if interested
 
 
  first impressions
  Posted by: jay on Aug-25-12 11:53 PM (EST)
Had xplore s out for a couple of short paddles. It
seems very stable, primary and secondary. Very
maneuverable actually quite loose, would make a great
rough water play boat unloaded and also great for covering
miles on day paddles flat or in conditions. Back to
the secondary, it does lock in quite good and gives
lots of warning before she goes, but when she does
go it's quite fast almost like a nordlv. And rolls
really fast and easy, not quite as much pop at the
end of roll as some but rolls really nice for layback
rolls and the GP I was using. Speed feels decent on
flat stuff but felt alot faster the rougher it got
as the wind picked up. The 20" beam was great for
keeping a nice close paddle stroke, cockpit needs
some more padding as it was a bit to big in stock
form. So some thicker foam for thigh braces and
probably ditch the backband and make a slanted
foam back rest/support. Need seat time in more
conditions to get a better feel of boat but so far
I'am liking it. This model is suspose to be for the
smaller with gear to sink hull down enough and give
a very stable ride, I think the larger folk who fit
into this model would like it as a day boat because
there extra weight with out gear would have boat
deeper in water and have alot more stability
especially secondary.
 
 
  re: size
  Posted by: NewbTastic on Aug-26-12 10:48 AM (EST)
Great initial review, Jay. Thanks. =]

But I wonder about one thing... it's the Xplore 'S', i.e. the smallest one Tiderace makes, out of four sizes. Yet the stock cockpit is a bit big for you, at your 5'9", 155 lbs?? You're not that little.

Sounds like a small woman would need an Xplore 'XS' then, which TR doesn't make.

 
 
  Xplore S
  Posted by: jay on Aug-26-12 12:20 PM (EST)
The cockpit fits good but I'am used to paddling
a Tahe greenland OC and all other cockpits feel
big, so getting cockpit outfitting tight enough
will make a big difference for edging and control.
I think someone small would need a smaller fitting
cockpit or lots of foam. Seems like alot of people
who like the handling of boat are at the upper end
of weight scale and over. Probably because it fits tighter and there weight gets hull into water so
the secondary firms up.
 
 
  Xcite S feedback
  Posted by: jay on Sep-22-12 1:31 PM (EST)
I'am still really interested in hearing any feedback
from any xcite s owners or seat time in boat.
How does secondary stability compare to avocet or
romany and efficency/speed when pushed? does it
plow when pushed or still efficent enough for long
day paddles or light touring on flat water days?
 

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