Posted by: ashtanga on Jul-15-12 11:09 PM (EST) Category: Kayaks
Has anyone had any experience/advice about thermoform Avocet VCP? Considering buying one but cautious about the material , its durability and repair ease. Also wondered why they are discontinuing the thermoform?/
Thanks to all!
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Posted by: djo on Jul-16-12 2:19 PM (EST)
I have only paddled the Eddyline boats, other thermoforms may be different. Thermoform boats are quite light. The ones I have used weight less than similar fiberglass boats but generally more than kevlar and/or carbon boats. They are substantally lighter than rotomold boats. The material is nearly indestructable. The one exception seems to be if it is well below freezing when the materials appear to become more brittle (don't ask me how I know this). TF boats are much easier to repair than rotomold although maybe not as easy as composites. TF boats are usually priced between rotomold and composite boats. The TF process is more versatile in the types of designs so TF boats are often mistaken for composite - something that never happens with rotomold boats whose shape is limited by the methodology.
Just a note. Rotomold is no longer |
Posted by: g2d on Jul-16-12 2:25 PM (EST)
significantly limiting on shape. Look at what they are doing now in ww kayaks. The relative lack of stiffness of poly can be limiting on design. Make it thicker to make it stiffer, and you make it too heavy.
Posted by: dc9mm on Jul-16-12 3:06 PM (EST)
I had a eddyline Nighthawk 16. The thermoformed plastic is great. It can be repaired and there is even a video on eddylines website showing it done. I sold it because I didn't like they way it handled in rougher water but the material is great. I wish more manufacturers were using it. I now have fiberglass and Iam very cautious not to damage it. Not near as tough as thermoformed.
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-17-12 12:03 PM (EST)
Posted by: george4908 on Jul-18-12 11:41 PM (EST)
>>I'm not knocking TF but I don't think it's significantly stronger than composite.
thermoform is less brittle?|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-19-12 2:25 PM (EST)
I don't buy that. Composite has a cloth matrix where thermoform does not. And composite holds it's strength when cold.
Posted by: djo on Jul-19-12 2:48 PM (EST)
I don't know about that. You can beat on a TF hull all day with a hammer and not do significant damage. We didn't actually beat all day but there were a dozen of us that took a swing or two. I have never done that to a fiberglass boat but I suspect you would hole it. TF will get brittle below freezing and you drop a TF boat off a car in zero degree weather and you can crack it (don't askhow I know). I suspect you would do less damage to a fiberglass boat under those conditions. I take boats out in that kind of weather but I doubt if there are many other such fools.
I've dropped my composite boat from|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-19-12 3:09 PM (EST)
the car top twice, once on the bow, and not a crack other than some gelcoat damage. I have endless gashes on my hull from beaching on cobble, and only one down to the cloth. No cracks in a fifteen-year-old boat.
Had an Eddyline Fathom LV...|
Posted by: ByronWalter on Jul-16-12 5:02 PM (EST)
...and now a Eddyline built Rockpool Alaw, both TF. Big thumbs up. Only thing I don't like about the RP is the round rear hatch:)
Posted by: Waterbird on Jul-16-12 6:33 PM (EST)
I only know of one vice, that it can crack in very cold water if you hit a rock with quite a bit of force or it falls off your car in the winter. Otherwise it has every advantage: light, stiff, durable, easy to repair, retains its shiny finish. My thermoformed kayak is four years old and the deck still looks new
The build, not just the material . . . |
Posted by: water_walker on Jul-16-12 8:00 PM (EST)
Doesn't make sense for VCP|
Posted by: abc on Jul-16-12 10:26 PM (EST)
"Also wondered why they are discontinuing the thermoform?"
I have one.|
Posted by: old_user on Jul-17-12 11:23 AM (EST)
I have one of the very few thermoform Avocets made. There may be as few as 15 or 20 in existence. They were produced by Eddyline on contract for Valley as far as I know, so the material performance and durability should roughly match Eddyline's. The boat is a bit of a hybrid as it uses Eddyline's skeg system (nice, smooth) but Valley's seat, recessed deck line giudes and hatches, and obviously shape.
I punched a hole in one|
Posted by: nickjc on Jul-19-12 3:20 PM (EST)
During a rough water rescue. I punched a hole in thermoform boat with the bow of my boat. Not that hard a hit but made a 2inch hole in the boat. We field repaired with tape but I haven't seen the final repair.
now that would not have happened|
Posted by: slushpaddler on Jul-19-12 3:27 PM (EST)
...with a composite boat with anything resembling a decent layup. Not even with chopped mat...