Table of Contents

• river ratings - kimoj44 - Apr-10-12 11:36 AM
  • What rivers are you looking at and where - clarion - Apr-10-12 11:46 AM
  • Well, it is sort of like this: - pblanc - Apr-10-12 12:06 PM
    • Special Warnings ... - Seadart - Apr-10-12 6:12 PM
  • "Class II" is perhaps the most messed - g2d - Apr-10-12 1:15 PM
  • My feeling - rpg51 - Apr-10-12 7:48 PM
  • Class I is nothing more than some - jackl - Apr-10-12 7:50 PM
    • Only the experienced decked boaters - g2d - Apr-10-12 10:10 PM
  • Portage them - Celia - Apr-10-12 7:53 PM
    • what g2d said - daggermat - Apr-10-12 8:38 PM
  • Two sections of the Deerfield - eckilson - Apr-10-12 9:46 PM
    • Interesting... - plainsman - Apr-11-12 2:11 AM
      • That's the problem with river ratings.. - eckilson - Apr-11-12 6:07 AM
        • I might have given the first video a - g2d - Apr-11-12 10:58 AM
  • Class II video - clarion - Apr-11-12 6:48 AM
    • Good Videos - pblanc - Apr-11-12 7:23 AM
    • Bring spare pants! - ness - Apr-17-12 7:44 PM
  • Benchmark rapids - somalley - Apr-11-12 9:17 AM
    • I didn't know Railroad on the Esopus - clarion - Apr-11-12 11:19 AM
  • read a book - join a club ? - Mattt - Apr-11-12 9:53 AM
  • since you are wondering ...... - pilotwingz - Apr-11-12 11:41 AM
    • If I'm ever at the WW put-in - clarion - Apr-11-12 2:11 PM
      • if someone ask me ....... - pilotwingz - Apr-11-12 3:06 PM
        • Where is this place? - clarion - Apr-11-12 3:54 PM
          • spring high water ........... - pilotwingz - Apr-11-12 9:24 PM
            • I think I found the image on google - clarion - Apr-11-12 9:35 PM
              • from the red ballon ........ - pilotwingz - Apr-11-12 10:12 PM
  • I wish... - Al_A - Apr-12-12 10:17 PM
    • Well said. n/t - holmes375 - Apr-12-12 11:48 PM
  • Ask locally - abc - Apr-13-12 9:51 AM
  • As others have said - jimyaker - Apr-13-12 5:40 PM
  • kimo , can you hike to the rapids ...... - pilotwingz - Apr-14-12 9:44 AM

Messages in this Topic

 

	What rivers are you looking at and where   Posted by: clarion on Apr-10-12 11:46 AM (EST)
	Someone here will likely be familiar with them. How old are you and your boys? What canoe(s)? How much experience do you have? Ideally, it's best to get some experience yourself before taking the kids out. I pretty much had a rule when I started out that I wouldn't take the kids on anything I hadn't first done myself, unless it was class I.

 

	Well, it is sort of like this:   Posted by: pblanc on Apr-10-12 12:06 PM (EST)
	if you have to ask, maybe you should think twice about doing it. Seriously, I don't really want to discourage you from trying whitewater but there are a number of factors that come into play and make this question tough to answer. This link gives a pretty standard description of the Class I-VI whitewater scale: http://www.performancevideo.com/whitewater_rating_system Western rivers are often rated on a 1-10 scale. It is difficult to try to reconcile the two rating systems. The lethal dangers of most big rivers in the West is flush drowning and hypothermia due to paddling in snow melt. In most rivers in the Midwest and East hypothermia is also a factor, particularly in the spring, but entrapment poses the more commonly encountered potentially lethal hazard. Here is another link that shows some photos of different classes: http://www.c-w-r.com/information/classification.html Unfortunately, the photos are small and not terribly representative especially of Class I and Class II. Note that Class I is more than just moving flat water. Typically Class I involves at least some riffles and perhaps tongues of unobstructed current with significant eddy lines. Class II covers a whole lot of ground from hypertechnical stuff requiring precise maneuvering to relatively unobstructed rapids with wave trains large enough to swamp an open boat. Even though Class II is referred to as "novice" be aware that some Class II rapids can be distinctly unfriendly to novices. Most open boaters with reasonable flat water skills can handle Class I OK, but be aware that even moving flat water without any rapids can be dangerous when strainers are involved, and they are always a possibility. Be aware of the following factors. First, guide books written back in the 1960s to 1990 or so often rate rapids at least a Class higher in difficulty than more modern guide books would. Many rapids have been significantly downgraded as skills and equipment have progressed. Second, guide book ratings generally apply to a "standard" or typical water level. At higher levels most rivers become significantly more difficult but some rapids may be completely "washed out" at higher levels, and some rapids and drops become more technical and difficult at lower levels, so always take into account the flow level. Third, a river in a remote location, one that is difficult to walk out from, or a run in a gorge that might make portaging around a rapid difficult or impossible should probably be considered a class more difficult than one that has a road running along side it. Fourth, the nature of the gradient plays a big role. Many rapids are drop-pool in nature. These rivers have intermittent rapids which might be relatively short with interspersed pools of moving flat water. Other rivers with a fairly uniform gradient might have relatively continuous rapids. A Class short Class III rapid with a nice, big recovery pool at the bottom of it might be a lot safer for a novice to run than a half mile of continuous Class II water. If you get off on the wrong foot at the top of a Class II rapid that is several hundred feet long you could easily lose your boat if you were not with a group that had at least one experienced boater downstream.

 

	Special Warnings ...   Posted by: Seadart on Apr-10-12 6:12 PM (EST)
	Wing dams, weirs, ledge drops into pools, and bridge pilings. Often with good flows the features mentioned above create deadly traps for those who are not familiar with how boats handle in flow water and how flowing recirculating water can create drowning machines. They are often features on stretches of water listed as Class II and many people have died in Class II water because they were unaware of the risks. Best to get some lessons for both you and your sons before you attempt whitewater.

 

	"Class II" is perhaps the most messed   Posted by: g2d on Apr-10-12 1:15 PM (EST)
	up rating because the whitewater crowd has re-assigned a lot of rapids from class 3 to class 2, and the written class 2 definition no longer makes any sense as applied to existing rapids. Supposedly there is only one class 3 rapid on the Nantahala (Lesser Wesser, or Nantahala Falls), but I would not give you and your kids much chance of getting through Pattons Run, just around a blind bend near the top of the run. It would be class 3 if the written definition applied, but familiarity brings contempt. Tell us where you are, and perhaps we can give suggestions about easy, class 1 rivers where you can gain experience a skills. Some formal training is very important too.

 

	My feeling   Posted by: rpg51 on Apr-10-12 7:48 PM (EST)
	is that the best and safest way to do this is to paddle with someone who has experience, get some experience under your own belt before you go alone. I think when you are brand new you might not perceive the dangers and you might find your self in trouble. If you do take it on - be sure to stop well before any rapids start and scout carefully. If you have any doubt about your ability to paddle through safely don't hesitate to carry around it. There is no shame in walking around. The best of us do it all the time. Sections described as class 2 vary tremendously depending on a whole host of factor not the least of which is water level.

 

	Class I is nothing more than some   Posted by: jackl on Apr-10-12 7:50 PM (EST)
	small waves, and can be done by any one. Unfortunately Class II can be simple and fun and a little more than Class I, or it can be a bear. We do a river near us that is Class I-II and I love it, but I have been in a large raft in the New river in West Virginia, and gone through a rapid Called "Surprise", that is supposed to be a II and I watched two paddlers in the rear get thrown overboard. I would want to know more about that class II section before doing it. jack L

 

	Only the experienced decked boaters   Posted by: g2d on Apr-10-12 10:10 PM (EST)
	could call Surprise a class 2. And there's rapids being called class 1 that often trip up newbies and the feckless. Many years ago, there was extensive discussion after a USCA race (on the Allegheny I think) where about a third of the field swamped out in a class 1 wavy rapid. Most of the discussion was directed at the intelligence of the paddlers rather than the correctness of the rapid classification.

 

	Portage them   Posted by: Celia on Apr-10-12 7:53 PM (EST)
	Even class I is fast enough for you to lose physical contact with your sons in a capsize, easily. And there's not a chance in class II. Given that it appears you are all new to this, I'd put that consideration well ahead of any other.

 

	what g2d said   Posted by: daggermat on Apr-10-12 8:38 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-10-12 8:48 PM EST -- cl. 2 has become a catch-all. There's also 2+, which is actually the rating the slalom folks assigned to my local paddling/poling area.Level makes a difference. I've seen that 2+ be anything from (my opinion) a 2- to a 3+ when it's howling. I've paddled it from 370 cfs (cubic feet/second) to 5800 cfs, and there's a huge difference in skills required, speed, danger etc.. Familiarity breeds comfort on a rapid. First time is potentially scary (though in an invigorating way, especially for the kids who don't have a mortgage, job, kids etc...),3 runs in you're having fun, and 50 runs later you're playing every feature. It'd be good if you could find someone familiar with the run and go with them, or at least get a detailed description. Generally from what I've seen, AW (and possibly your guidebook, but note disclaimer "possibly" lol) rate things higher than those that paddle those runs a lot do. Often a low level is slower, but creates issues with hitting rocks and capsizing, especially when you're new to this run. We've got a local run that had 3 cl. 4 features until the "streamkeeper" decided to downgrade it to a 3+. Reason being, during flood conditions the local authorities would block parking on cl. 4 runs....but not 3+'s lol... Anyways, don't get scared off. Scouting is half the game, kids absolutely love this stuff, and it was for 10 years my favorite activity due to the skills that needed to be learned. Now that I'm where I'm gonna' be, not slow, not fast...kind of half-fast ;-), I found something else to suck at and hopefully improve at before I'm too old. I ask these types of questions on the bicycling forums... Generally a guidebook rated 2 should be fun, as long as your kids can actually help, and are adventurous. Main things, if you do lose your sheeeit, try to stay to the side or upriver from the boat. You don't want a waterlogged canoe pinning you into a rock. Stay the hell away from any wood (trees/branches) in the water (these are called strainers.), if floating downriver, try to float on your back, and keep your sneaker wearing feet aimed downstream, they're your bumpers. Try to hang onto paddles, etc. SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT first. If you have an issue, it's good to have a plan, large eddy to try to get to, hopefully a pool, at least a common river bank, so you're not on one side, your kid on the other. Dry-bag, towels, small first aid kit, etc... Have fun. What has you nervous today will have you laughing down the road. Trust me on this one.

 

	Two sections of the Deerfield   Posted by: eckilson on Apr-10-12 9:46 PM (EST)
	Lower section (below Zoar Gap) – this is class I http://vimeo.com/14149238 Fife Brook section (above and including Zoar Gap) – this is easy class II, except for Zoar Gap at the end which is class III http://vimeo.com/2666167 (TommyC1 makes a cameo appearance at 1:08)

 

	Interesting...   Posted by: plainsman on Apr-11-12 2:11 AM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 2:17 AM EST -- I'm a total newb at this and don't know a thing about rivers. I never would have guessed that 1st video is Class 1. Just looking at it I would have figured it surely is Class 2.

 

	That's the problem with river ratings..   Posted by: eckilson on Apr-11-12 6:07 AM (EST)
	They are really in the eye of the beholder. The first video is generally considered a class I run since it has small waves with few obstructions. The class II section of the second video has slightly larger waves, and adds obstructions like rocks to maneuver around. The class III section (Zoar Gap) has bigger waves and obstructions and requires more precise maneuvering.

 

	I might have given the first video a   Posted by: g2d on Apr-11-12 10:58 AM (EST)
	class 1+, because of the length and wave size, and the risk of being knocked over by an inner-tuber. I found the rapids above Zoar Gap to be very class 2-, very easy. I took the very technical but dry right side sneak route through Zoar Gap. It was like being a pinball and required some quick reactions. I'd like to go back and try the left side route sometime.

 

	Class II video   Posted by: clarion on Apr-11-12 6:48 AM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 8:30 AM EST -- These are just short rapids, not 200-300'ers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI8-87v1Qeo As you can see we're pretty well outfitted even for it. Where kids are involved you need to build in extra safety margin. And if you want a real eye opener on how fast things can go wrong on class II (this is class II also) check this one out. This was at a training clinic, lots of people went through here and no one saw the submerged log that the swimmer found. Without the support you see in the video, this could have been very bad. At the 1:20 mark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZHVYjaluJQ I should also point out that the swimmers clothes were snagged on the log and got torn during the rope pull.

 

	Good Videos   Posted by: pblanc on Apr-11-12 7:23 AM (EST)
	Those videos are probably as good a visual demonstration of Class I, II, and III water as you will find. Erik's first video shows typical Class I water. There is swift current and some waves, but none of the waves are close to being large enough to swamp an open boat and the flow is completely unobstructed. The boaters can pretty much follow whatever path they wish and as long as they keep the boat aligned with the flow and don't accidentally cross an eddy line with the nose of their boat, they really don't have to do much of anything. Erik's second video shows a Class III rapid (Zoar Gap). The boaters are doing a good job following a nice clean line through this rapid but you can see some sizable holes that could quickly separate a paddler from their boat if they can't spot the line and control their boat in heavy current. Brian's video of the Slip Clinic shows some typical modestly technical Class II water. The current is not terribly pushy and there are no big drops but there are plenty of obstacles to be avoided and some degree of boat control is required to maneuver through them.

 

	Bring spare pants!   Posted by: ness on Apr-17-12 7:44 PM (EST)
	I was as calm as could be floating down that river, until I hit that submerged log with my gut and snagged my pants on it. The embarrassment of losing my pants in front of a bunch of ww canoeists (mainly guys), once the throw rope got to me, kept me from the real worry of almost going under that strainer. So yes, things can go wrong really fast when you least expect it. That said, my advice is find someone you can learn from -- a group or mentor, or take lessons or classes if at all possible.

 

	Benchmark rapids   Posted by: somalley on Apr-11-12 9:17 AM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 9:19 AM EST -- Here's a list of rapids that American Whitewater has identified as "benchmark" examples of each classification from 1 to 3+. Won't do you much good if you don't live near any of these, but you could at least Google some pictures or video... http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/safety:class2benchmarkrapids You'll have to copy and paste the entire link - the paddling.net forum software seems unable to handle punctuation inside a URL. Or try this shortened version: http://ow.ly/acVAS

 

	I didn't know Railroad on the Esopus   Posted by: clarion on Apr-11-12 11:19 AM (EST)
	... was rated a class III. I guess that puts my 2004 tandem swim out of Wenonah Sprit II into a little better perspective. I just figured it was because we didn't bother scouting the whole thing. We made it 2/3 of the way through and then got surrounded by kaykers for the swim. They thought they were being helpful but all they did was block our vision while yelling, "You need to get off the river!!!" Finally we had no choice but yell back, "You need to get out of our way!!" :D

 

	read a book - join a club ?   Posted by: Mattt on Apr-11-12 9:53 AM (EST)
	one thing you should do before starting out is to look for books and videos on whitewater paddling (you may be able to find some decent books at your local library) you should get some basic concepts down before ever trying a CI or CII - such as how to enter and exit an eddy (useful for entering and exiting the river which you may have to do in a strong current, or for a "pause" so you can maybe take some time to view the downstream conditions, how to do a ferry manouver (upsteream ferry in particular is very useful to cross oover to the other side of the river if needed), some basic strokes like draw and sweep, how to read the river, and most importantly, how to assume the swim position for swimming in rapids and shallow rivers to avoid foot entrapment (you can drown in two feet of water in CI), and how to rig floatation bags in a boat - without additional floatation to displace water, a swamped boat is much more likely to broach and pin on rocks or bridge abutments or trees - goodbye boat and maybe a very long walk out; and you should install some kind of kneeling pads - you really want to be kneeling going thru CII as a beginner - it lowers your center of gravity making the boat more stable reading books will give you a feeling for the "jargon" of whitewater boating - so if someone tells you you have to eddy out river right and scout xyz rapid, you at least have an idea of whta they are talking about. one of the best things you might do is to join a local club - they often have training availbale, and will designate some trips as "beginner" so you could start out easy. It also solves the shuttle problem you would have unless you have two vehicles and your sons are old enough to drive, and you will see how other people are doing things. having said all that, and agreeing with what all the other posters have said, I'll admit to "just do it" as being my start in ww - me and dad just put the boat in on slow rivers and learned by doing, never having taken a class or read the books - and gradually working up to harder sections of river - generally those we could scout before hand, but not always. but we were very good paddlers - a lot depends on the skill and power of those boys as to what you can and can't do

 

	since you are wondering ......   Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-11-12 11:41 AM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 11:57 AM EST -- ...... what cl II looks like , then it's not a good idea to just end up being in it , especially with your kids . You work your way up to running fast river currents , troughs , rapid water ... really bad idea in my mind to just jump right into it without experience and practice at handling your canoe . You work your way up in mastering the paddling (handling-steering) control as the water gets faster and faster , bumpier and bumpier . The faster the flow speed and the bumpier the rapids get , the more precision your control needs to be . When it goes wrong , it happens fast and then you are at the mercy of whatever is in the water like those rocks , strainers , sweepers and tons of other junk like metal , etc. . Shallow rapid water makes the bottom closer to you , also those other things on the bottom are closer . I think most of the special concerns one should be aware of have already been mentioned . I'll just tell you that those rocks in the river can be more than hard "like a rock" ... they can also be sharp "like a razor" . It's more than possible to get a foot caught in a rock crag under water should you try to stand in shallow water when taking a swim . The foot gets caught , the current knocks you over , the waters weight and current hold you under and you may not be able to get your head above water again , maybe even a broken bone ... don't try to stand up during a swim in river currents until safe bottom to do so . Should you flip and swim , don't let go of your paddle , you'll be needing it later . And that reminds me , probably everything in the canoe that's not latched to it , and some stuff that is ... will take a swim to , and if it don't float - it sinks (goodbye) .

 

	If I'm ever at the WW put-in   Posted by: clarion on Apr-11-12 2:11 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 2:36 PM EST -- ... with someone I don't know, and they ask how bumpy the rapids are, I'm not sure what my response will be ...

 

	if someone ask me .......   Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-11-12 3:06 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-11-12 3:15 PM EST -- ...... I might say something like once you go under the bridge which is only passable on right , the wave trains are 30" high , 100 feet wide , 400' long on each side , the bridge center is damed up by a log jam dam ... but once you get past the bridge a ways you can get out of the wave trains into the middle of the flow where it's much calmer and even eddy back up to the down river side of the log jam if you're able to exit the trains quick enough . I would say those wave trains are real bumpy , mess up and you're in trouble instantly , you can't avoid them , you have to go through them for awhile and the river speed picks up fast as soon as you go under the bridge into them . I couldn't say this way or that about what rapid class level that stuff is , just that it's fairly mean water for awhile , big bumps to me . My canoe is a deep tandem but it's not a banana boat , and I'm not set up w/airbags , helmet , etc. , so we are at our limits and on the edge in that stuff .

 

	Where is this place?   Posted by: clarion on Apr-11-12 3:54 PM (EST)
	Sounds fun!

 

	spring high water ...........   Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-11-12 9:24 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-13-12 10:52 PM EST -- ....... at the Mouth of Monocacy river , MD . The bridge is the old C&O Canal Monocacy aquaduct which is about a 1/4 mile from the Monoc's confluence with the Potomac river . An typical rise on the Monoc. during spring high water from heavy rains is about 16'-17' on the gage at Frederick . You can time it as it's falling again . One spring we got there and the the intire upstream face of the aquaduct was a solid log jam dam shore to shore ... not passable from upstream side , so we carried to the downstream side and slide in . The launch is 100' or so upstream of the aquaduct . When the gage 16.9 mi. upriver in Frederick MD. reads 6.5'-7' and the almost yearly log jam dam builds up against the aquaduct , it causes the water to split around both sides and the resulting wave trains for about 400' . You actually have to drop in off the water pillow that forms just as you head under the bridge on which ever side is still open . There are large boulders and irregular bottom that inhabit the river bed immediately below the aquaduct all the way to the Potomac . When the gage is reading that 6'-7' , that's an avg. of 3-3.5' above normal avg. flow . For us it's a matter of just getting out to the main river (Potomac) , from the launch at Mouth of Monocacy . We're going fishing , not running WW , but it seems there's always WW somewhere getting in the way ... guess that's just peidmont/mountain rivers , it's there so you learn to work with it . The Monocacy is just one place , there's plenty more of this kinda stuff all around the Potomac ... Potomac just happens to be one of the rivers we fish . That was paddling our canoe , leighrobin and I , I think this girl is crazy (about fishin , lol) . You ought to see how brave (stupid) the nephew and I get when we are using the Jon boat in the cold spring high waters ... you ever see a Jon boat w/jet climb a waterfall , lol ... how about side slipping (the big slide) across a long ledge (75'-100' to cross upriver) sideways trying to find a pass upriver in the fast waters of the Susquehana , lose it on the slide and you gonna roll , would probably be hilarious to on lookers to se us roll the Jon .

 

	I think I found the image on google   Posted by: clarion on Apr-11-12 9:35 PM (EST)
	Is this it? http://tinyurl.com/76hen4j Looks like good fishing. How do you get back upstream when it's running?

 

	from the red ballon ........   Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-11-12 10:12 PM (EST)
	-- Last Updated: Apr-12-12 10:49 AM EST -- ...... on your Google link (that's Frederick) , look easward to find the Monocacy river running around the east side of Frederick . Follow the Monocay south 16-17 miles until it confluences with the Potomac (larger river) ... if you enlarge and check Googles photo feature on the drop down menu , there are many pics. of the Mouth of Monocay C&O aquaduct ... all the ones I looked at show an unblocked aquaduct and easy flow ... but that all changes almost every spring (Mar-Apr) when we get good rains . Drop a mail and I'll show you that aquaduct fully blocked , you'll know exactly what I mean then . We are able to hug the shore paddling like maniacs river left for the 1st half on the way back up ... then line the rest of the way to the aquaduct jam , thread through under the aquaduct still lining over the jam and then the last 100' or so lining to the launch . Fairly easy to do unless your bow slips a foot off track away from huging shore ... then you just gotta go with it into the 180 and get blown down stream , but the good news is you can take another shot after the long recovery , lol ... you'll get back to the launch sooner or later , it's a guarantee - that's where your truck is . Yeah , that section of the Potomac sometimes has some exceptionally good fishin ... I think it's called a trophy section (??) . Follow that Potomac from the Monoc. northward upriver not too far and you'll find Harpers Ferry (Civil War place) at the confluence with the Shenandoah river ... that water around there runs cls III regularly , kinda scarey to me sometimes . The Monocacy runs out of PA clarion , drops down through MD past Frederick into the Potomac .

 

	I wish...   Posted by: Al_A on Apr-12-12 10:17 PM (EST)
	the original poster would chime back in with at least what part of the country he's talking about. Class I and II in the Ozarks is a lot different, with somewhat different types of hazards, than class I and II in Montana or in Virginia. To me, class II is bad enough to be dangerous in several ways. Volume. A class II on a big, high volume river means that there is little margin for error. It might be easy, but do something wrong and self rescue is a lot more difficult than it would be normally on a much smaller stream. Strainers. A lot of class I streams will have a few class II strainers, that change from year to year and are usually ignored in the guidebooks. Any water in my part of the country, the Ozarks, that doesn't have a canoe outfitter servicing it will likely have a few strainers (the outfitters chain saw the strainers on their rivers). The guidebooks will call it class I, but make a mistake with a strainer and it'll be just as dangerous as class IV. Paddling a class II rock garden is a whole lot safer than paddling a class I river with strainers. Water temps. Even in summer, streams in some parts of the country are cold enough to pose a threat of hypothermia. Complacency. I've gotten wet a few times even after 50 years of paddling class I and II, and it always happens when I get careless in an "easy" place, never when I come to a more difficult looking rapid.

 

	Well said. n/t   Posted by: holmes375 on Apr-12-12 11:48 PM (EST)

 

	Ask locally   Posted by: abc on Apr-13-12 9:51 AM (EST)
	The internet can only help so much. Ask locally and find people who're familiar with the stretch you're concern about. If they've seen you paddle, they can tell you if you're up for it. If you have the chance, join a local paddling club so you get some local experience to help you.

 

	As others have said   Posted by: jimyaker on Apr-13-12 5:40 PM (EST)
	There is a lof of variety in what people call Class II and it changes with time based on changes in equipment and such. The guidebook including a run probably means it's a common whitewater river, so hopefully you can find a guide or a group to go with the first time down. The final decision should weigh your skill level with the difficulty of the river, the remoteness, the weather and water conditions, and your risk tolerence. I can think of very easy runs with Class I and Class II where I'd put anyone in a boat and say "go" and I can think of other Class II runs where I'd strongly suggest having a guide the first time down. Someone familiar with a river often knows where new people have trouble and will take them around the trouble spots. If you tell me you're all comfortable on Class III, know how to boat scout, catch eddies, swim a drop, etc. then my answer might be "just go on", but then again if you were that skilled you probably wouldn't be asking this question. Asking a local paddlers, "Is this a beginner friendly run?" "What skills do I need" and "What levels are high and low", and "Are there any spots to be aware of" can help tremendously -- things often change after a guidebook is printed, so it can only tell you so much. If a WW club is nearby try to find out what you can from the guys that run it year after year -- even join the club to find other (often better) runs in your area. Most clubs are tight nit groups who tend to help each other out a lot. $0.02

 

	kimo , can you hike to the rapids ......   Posted by: pilotwingz on Apr-14-12 9:44 AM (EST)
	....... how long of a run is the river trips your thinking of ... 5 mi. , 10 mi. ?? What about paddling up river for the 1st look see ?? I've paddled up river 4-5 mi. to check some rapids and ledges before . Wanted to see them 1st from the bottom side because some said cl III and advised caution at certain water levels ... they were pretty technical , long and fast , and as such have not run them yet from the top down , probably won't ever . We're out there fishin and going through rapids and over ledges is just part of gettin around on the mountain river thing , but there is a "no do it" point for me , ain't worth it thing . Biggest deal is I don't always feel like securing everything I take along fishin to keep from losing it to the bottom . Going up river is nice way to go sometimes , and you always end up back where you started , no shuttle needs for that type of outing , and it's just as much fun , if not a bit more challenging . Lot a different ways to go in the canoe , it's all good , each place and way is different , keeps it interesting !!

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