Which kayak would you recommend for confused seas, speed and rough water. Explorer's and Romany's , NordKappLv or QCC . Thanks FishHawk
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I have been in the Valley NordcapLV|
Posted by: jackL on Oct-12-10 7:12 PM (EST)
and I'll take my QCC-700 any day, (between those two)
For my money|
Posted by: old_user on Oct-12-10 7:23 PM (EST)
I don`t think there is a better rough water kayak than the Romany. Certainly not the fastest, but best handling. For a bit more speed look at the Explorer but will give up a bit of handling. BTW speed is of kayak is way overrated. If you can maintain 3.5-4mph you can paddle with anyone. Paddlers stroke has more to do with speed than the boat IMO. You want to go faster work on your forward stroke.
You won't likely get good information|
Posted by: Dr_Disco on Oct-12-10 7:33 PM (EST)
I myself would agree with jackl. I have paddled the explorer and romany and prefer my qcc700. I don't like the Nordkapp but have not paddled the lv. But those opinions are purely personal preferences. You could easily disagree. So, ignore all of us. Paddle all of them (or as many as you can) yourself and make up your own mind. Don't pay any attention to the pep rallies on either side.
What I did|
Posted by: old_user on Oct-12-10 8:06 PM (EST)
I was also looking for a boat that I would like in rough water. I hired an instructor for an afternoon in the SF Bay on a windy and rough day and demoed kayaks.
Have you considered a Pintail|
Posted by: dong on Oct-12-10 8:25 PM (EST)
If your looking for a second kayak for rough conditions, it's hard to beat.
for confused seas, speed and rough water|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-12-10 10:23 PM (EST)
Personally, I usually choose my Aquanaut for such conditions if I'm covering distances. For rock gardening, surfing, and tide races I usually choose my Romany. For thrills moving through confused seas I use my Nordkapp LV.
Posted by: jcbikeski on Oct-12-10 10:31 PM (EST)
I'd bet the Nordkapp would be faster but only in very capable hands. The Aquanaut gets you most of that in a boat that beginner could grow into sooner than later.
Posted by: Celia on Oct-12-10 10:43 PM (EST)
Does this boat have to be a good photography platform? I see that in your profile. If you want this boat to be a photography platform, I'd suggest boats that have a tendency to stay well-mannered in rough conditions. That's not necessarily the same as being stable - the Romany is very forgiving for example but it'll be tossing all over the place while tending to stay upright.
Posted by: nebeginner on Oct-12-10 11:29 PM (EST)
Well, first "rough" can be subjective. What do you mean by rough?
Posted by: carldelo on Oct-12-10 11:51 PM (EST)
Posted by: nebeginner on Oct-13-10 8:13 AM (EST)
Thanks carldelo ... I'm far from knowledgeable on boat attributes, so your explanation is helpful.
Glide is about tracking straight|
Posted by: Celia on Oct-13-10 12:34 PM (EST)
My 17 ft plus Explorer has less glide than my sub-16 ft Vela on the lesser swells that we mostly actually paddle in, because the latter is quite bow-tight and the first has a very loose bow. On bigger waves, the Explorer has much more glide because the length seems to help it dig in more.
Posted by: old_user on Oct-17-10 2:34 AM (EST)
Agree with Carl, the F1 is probably one of the best rough water boats.
Test paddle as many boats as you can|
Posted by: waterspyder on Oct-13-10 8:41 AM (EST)
Since your profile says you're in Cape Cod take a ride up to Billington Sea kayaks in Plymouth and test paddle a Surge. You don't mention your size or weight, the Surge has a small cockpit, kevlar, 38 pounds - 17'7", no rudder or skeg but I've paddled mine in some really nasty water and never felt the boat was going to let me down.
Posted by: svenkalmar on Oct-13-10 12:13 PM (EST)
rough water boat|
Posted by: poleplant on Oct-13-10 12:41 PM (EST)
valley aquanaut. for all of the above reasons.
My 'go to' boat|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-13-10 12:49 PM (EST)
I own 4 sea kayaks. Each of them a very good boat. However, if I am to be paddling a broad array of conditions and distances the Aquanaut is my choice. Before I owned my Romany or Nordlow, I used my Aquanaut for everything. It remains my 'go to' boat.
Consider the Epic 18X|
Posted by: RiverMystic on Oct-13-10 1:44 PM (EST)
It was good enough for Freya to circumnavigate Australia and I have had it in 45 mph wind gusts on the Chesapeake Bay. The plumb bow cuts through the waves nicely without slapping down hard, which causes loss of speed.
Contradictions and compromise|
Posted by: old_user on Oct-13-10 4:19 PM (EST)
Beginner, confused waters, rough waters, fast, photogaphy. Beginner and photography might be the same type of boat, confused and rough waters would be a different type of boat, fast is yet another.
Not yet mentioned ...|
Posted by: kocho on Oct-13-10 4:54 PM (EST)
... is the Current Designs Extreme aka Nomad. This is a large person's boat (not not an XXL by any means). I know someone who swears by it and paddles it in all kinds of conditions. I've had one for a while and it handled nasty windchop (up to about 3 feet, the kind at/over your eyesight) very well.
the boat that was #1|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-13-10 5:03 PM (EST)
Sea Kayaker found the Valley Rapier 20 the fastest sea kayak they ever tested.
Posted by: svenkalmar on Oct-13-10 5:23 PM (EST)
its all the great kayaks thats coming out all the time i guess. made by specialists in roughwater..rockpool ndk valley..tidal race etc ..its quite a jungle.
Second the Aquanaut|
Posted by: harlingford on Oct-13-10 5:59 PM (EST)
My wife has one, and it's a great all-around boat, including in rough water. Great boat for a novice to start with, and you will never "outgrow" it as you develop skills.
Posted by: svenkalmar on Oct-13-10 7:36 PM (EST)
ive only paddled the NordKapplv once and a few rolls.
Posted by: slushpaddler on Oct-13-10 7:42 PM (EST)
Rough water tends to equalize hulls that have differing speed performance in flatwater.
Thanks for the imput.|
Posted by: FishHawk on Oct-13-10 8:57 PM (EST)
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-14-10 12:03 AM (EST)
Just my 2 cents.|
Posted by: jaws on Oct-14-10 12:16 AM (EST)
My fastest boats on flat water were also fastest in rough water. That is why when I decided I wanted to go from point a to point b in rough water I always took my Looksha 2 or my Qcc 700. My senses told me they felt fast and my gps confirmed it. So instead of grabbing my Sirocco or Avatar which are good rough water kayaks my senses told me they were slower and my gps agreed.
I think I have owned all of the boats|
Posted by: moparharn on Oct-14-10 9:14 AM (EST)
mentioned so far. Without knowing who is buying the boat for what purpose, it is pretty difficult to give good advice. Based on my experience I would choose the Nordkapp to cover a long distance in rough water. No other boat (for me),once mastered, can give the feeling of oneness with the water like the Nordkapp can. It is a great "feeling" boat. I would choose a QCC 700 to race someone a long distance in rough water and the Epix 18x a close second. If I was going out in rough conditions for a longer paddle with the possibilty of increasingly deteriorating conditions and rescues, I would take the Aquanaut hands down. As WilsoJ2 stated "it is my go to boat". I must say that my Romany Surf is getting very close to filling that role as well, but it is not as well suited to a longer paddle, and strangely enough it does not seem to surf as well as my Aquanuat. I can catch a wave more often in the Naut than the Surf. My Cetus was by far the worst performing boat in off wind and wave conditions. It could be that it was a very early production hull number, or who knows what, but I really struggled with the Cetus. One guy out of ? The kayaks that I am really starting to take note of are the Tiderace line. I have never seen this kind of build quality in a kayak. I have also never seen this kind of excessive weight in a kayak, although I expect the new Thailand made epoxy boats should weigh less. The Tiderace Expore-X was very interesting to me. It turns like no other big boat I have paddled, this also means that you must be less anal about holding your line as the boat is constantly going a little this way and a little that way. I am sure that given more time I could have adjusted to it. I will not buy another boat without checking out the Tiderace model that could fit my need, very , very impressive boats. After having said all of this, my conclusion is that if you needed to ask this question, go with the appropriate sized Aquanaut. It will do everything but paddle for you. Bill
My experience has been the same|
Posted by: CapeFear on Oct-14-10 11:22 AM (EST)
I consistently travel the same distance faster in my Current Designs Extreme or Kajaksport Viviane than I do in my Capella 169 or VCP Selkie, as examples. This has been regardless of flatwater, 4-6 foot waves, wind, or calm.
Posted by: kocho on Oct-14-10 2:42 PM (EST)
My GPS confirms that in both flat and rough conditions I am faster in my 'faster" kayak, the Rapier 18, than in other kayaks I've paddled. Not by much over a longer distance but faster.
A differing opinion|
Posted by: acadia on Oct-14-10 9:32 AM (EST)
Allow me to profess my ignorance (and perhaps my agnosticism when it comes to kayak performance), but there are two things I can't help but mention:
what model of Kaskazi?|
Posted by: LeeG on Oct-14-10 9:57 AM (EST)
those look like good boats
Posted by: falcon on Oct-14-10 2:58 PM (EST)
Confused paddlers maybe, but the sea is not confused. I like to use the term textured seas myself .
Posted by: gjf12 on Oct-14-10 3:11 PM (EST)
For A to B travel in windy and choppy conditions, the first requirement is a boat that lets you hold any direction with respect to the wind, without excessive stroking, or sweeps, on one side. It must also be stable enough that you don't have to interrupt your forward motion for bracing. You must also be able to turn into or off the wind without excessive difficulty. It is also very nice if it does not broach too quickly in following conditions.
Posted by: carldelo on Oct-14-10 4:42 PM (EST)
The term 'confused sea state' is used in the scientific literature, so is a perfectly cromulent word to use.
Posted by: svenkalmar on Oct-14-10 4:55 PM (EST)
Posted by: FishHawk on Oct-14-10 8:55 PM (EST)
Posted by: jimx200 on Oct-15-10 11:58 AM (EST)
go-to yak on our Northern California coast is my 15'SOT with a full body wet suit. Have been in some nasty conditions where the chance of a spray skirt release is a major problem. And remounts are way easier on a big SOT
Posted by: poleplant on Oct-15-10 12:27 PM (EST)
Neologisms embiggen us all...|
Posted by: carldelo on Oct-15-10 1:15 PM (EST)
"extremely complicated interactions"|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-17-10 9:07 AM (EST)
Posted by: carldelo on Oct-17-10 10:59 AM (EST)
Thank you for the clarifications|
Posted by: wilsoj2 on Oct-17-10 11:23 AM (EST)
I did not mean that all the terms mentioned were synonymous - though it apparently read in that manner...
Posted by: falcon on Oct-15-10 1:26 PM (EST)
Odd that you would mention Mariner Kayaks as wind neutral. I have never paddled a kayak more predisposed to lee cocking than a Mariner boat, although the Mariner ll is a very fine boat in other respects. Are you sure you mean Mariner Kayaks from Seattle?
Posted by: carldelo on Oct-17-10 10:48 AM (EST)
I guess I'm busted, I've never managed to paddle a Mariner (yes, the ones from Seattle), but have read in many places that they are wind neutral. So I am reporting hearsay as fact, which is a mistake. If your experience is otherwise, then you get the final word.
Posted by: acadia on Oct-17-10 2:30 PM (EST)
with Mariners, depending on how you load them and where you place your seat. At least that's my experience with the Express. When balanced, it is quite easy to handle in wind.
Thanks...I've never undestood "confused"|
Posted by: salty on Oct-17-10 1:18 AM (EST)
Can the sea be "confused"? I doubt it. Buy whatever kayak fits and gives you a hard-on. Then go paddle the thing on cool trips and forget the internet.
When you are ready|
Posted by: mario on Oct-15-10 3:19 PM (EST)
to handle rough water you probably don't need to ask this question.
I don't find that logical|
Posted by: CapeFear on Oct-15-10 5:02 PM (EST)
Rough water requires skills|
Posted by: mario on Oct-16-10 8:49 AM (EST)
when you have developed those skills you know what boat suit you better in rough conditions
Wow, no mention of the Caribou?|
Posted by: wwlakeandsea on Oct-17-10 3:00 PM (EST)
The Caribou is still the first pick of mine for really "confused (rough)" water.... No boat takes better care of me, and I've paddled most of the boats mentioned in this thread.
Personally Own a QCC 700|
Posted by: MikeT on Oct-17-10 6:13 PM (EST)
Must haves and good to haves|
Posted by: old_user on Oct-18-10 12:08 PM (EST)
I think the best way to approach a boat choice decision is to decide what your must haves are and be sure to get that, then get as many nice to haves as you can. My Cetus is fast, a nice to have as I like to have my effort produce as much distance as possible. It is very maneuverable, which is nice to have fooling around on a day paddle. It carries enough so I do not go without anything I want, which is nice. But I go on an exposed ocean trip each year- this year from San Josef Bay on NW Vancouver Island, north around Cape Scott to Cape Sutil, and then back around Cape Scott to the Bay. And I can tell you that, for me, when I am rounding a Cape or Point in confused and breaking seas, high wind, in fog and rain making it hard to see, in a place with no one else around, when you sometimes have to take your eyes off the waves, stability, controlability, and predictability, which the Cetus has in spades, is a must have. If you are going to be out there in those conditions, do not compromise on the must haves to get a nice to have- when you are there you will be very happy you did not.